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Just a reminder, being a horrible person shoukdnt be tolerated simply because they claim their religion says so.... **YOU** choose one of any number of interpritations of your religion that caused you to be a horrible person. Thats not your religions fault, thats just you finding an excuse to be a shit human. No one needs to tolerate you being a shit human just because your a religious shit human.
That is all...
@freemo The ones that are nice are nice. They cite their religion as an affirmation of what they do right.
The ones that are not nice cite their religion as an affirmation to be not nice.
It changes nothing. People are what they are. Religion is like the foreskin of the worker's class. The party. If it gets hot, it retreats.
As Steven Weinberg famously put it, “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
I dont think there is any truth to that at all. Religion no more makes good people do evil things than it meaks evil people good.
@freemo @pieist The question is if you are looking at people that follow or at people that do their own thing.
If you look at those that do their own thing (including those that are nice and interpret their religion that way) it has no effect.
But if you look at those looking for guidance, well, religion can be used as a tool for control. And as such, weilded by selfish people, it can make good, but confused people do evil.
But yeah, i guess that's not the point. Abstract "religion" in itself does not make anyone do anything.
Religion can be used to control sure.. but without religion those same people are able to be controlled, and will be, by the same evil people. They just wont use religion to do it but another means.
@freemo @pieist Talking about efficiency of religion, i think the thousands of years of trial is hard to argue with.
But you are also right that those that fall for it will not be very resistant even to less efficient systems.
You'd just have to consider the evil overlords resource allocation for final result. If you can catch x% of easy to manipulate people with y% resource usage, a method that only gets x/2% of people with y% of your resources will take you double as long to destroy the world!
Not arguing religion was the best tool, i think there is a relatively recent contender that might just be better.
@admitsWrongIfProven
I am not convinced it is anymore efficient... I suspect the sort of people controlled by religion to doing something evil are the sort of people who are seeking out, actively, things that control them. They feel lost without it. Such people will insist on being controlled.
@pieist