@cnx sure, most of europe does it! i'm not sure if it's terribly efficient and you probably often need to add natural gas to reach the right temperatures. too low and you get toxic half burned stuff from all the halogenated plastic.

look at how the west is doing currently. the first things going to be shut down are these things if shit hits the fan. it's just too easy to throw garbage into the next forest/river/etc.

@cnx (i'm not known for being an optimist ;)

Well @bonifartius I hope they’ll continue doing it, I remember reading they even imported waste from other countries. To be pessimistic, it’s unlikely that they will throw garbage into the next forest/river though, that’s simply not how rich nations behave.

@cnx
> it’s unlikely that they will throw garbage into the next forest/river though, that’s simply not how rich nations behave

i sure hope so, but experience shows that these things are the first where costs are cut. iirc even the cleanup from seveso ended up not being properly treated but in the environment (because the mob controlled the garbage disposal business..).

I was hinting that they would somehow export garbage to poorer countries with laxer emission laws if burning plastic energy is ever outlawed, @bonifartius, but I hope that won’t be the case.

@cnx ah, i missed that nuance :)
i'd argue that this is in some ways already the case, environmental costs often are externalized to 2nd and 3rd world countries. this especially pisses me of in the case of supposedly "green" technologies, like lithium harvesting for battery electric cars.

@CapitalB
didn't know they use wood for this.
i only know that "recycling" is 90% burning. at least better than somewhere in the landscape :)

@bonifartius not here. 95% Aluminum rec. means 95% reflow.

Energy for were I live:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energie_Wasser_Bern

@CapitalB yeah, metals (and glass) are another story, but they are (at least those commonly used in wrapping, eg. iron and aluminium) also less problematic for the environment.
that's where the success story of recycling ends, other processes to really reuse materials are often just too costly. polymers except pet (which is downcycled into fleece..) are often just too dirty.
the only thing which really helps is using materials which are either _really_ biodegradeable or are common-in nature-materials (aluminium is rapidly passivated by oxygen, iron is common, glass is fancy sand..).

@bonifartius but this means they will burn all polymers to generate electricity and not much will be around. At least at places with power stations.

@CapitalB my original thought was more about what will happen here if things go south. i don't think europe will last much longer as it is, either the EU goes full burocracy-and-surveillance-as-government which is shitty because effectively plutocrats will reign, and those care jack shit for the environment if it's in the way of making money. or it breaks into more or less functioning nation states. the problem of the latter is that without the hyperglobalized supply chains many common things will become immensely costly. having good waste processing isn't the top priority if necessities are becoming rare and expensive.
so, while currently things are okish (aside from toxic/radioactive waste), i wouldn't bet that it stays this way. hence imho better sooner than later switch to things which are less problematic in getting rid of.

@bonifartius got it. But this highly depends on the place. Were you in Czech once? And Poland? Looks like 1000 miles apart.

I wonder more if there will be enough waste in the first place....

@CapitalB poland but a loong time ago.

i think humans are excelling in creating waste ;) here in germany i rarely find a place with no garbage. i can go to the forest and there is plenty, from sweets-wrappers to old plastic sheets of whatever. same goes for fields, just walk around on one after it got ploughed and you'll always find more than you think. it's just not so much that it is obvious to the eye, but plastic waste is nearly everywhere and it's at least as bad in the soil as it is in the oceans (soil just doesn't have cute turtles which are affected by it..).