bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 @bonifartius@social.cleverlibre.org

right in the feels

@trinsec :D tbh, earthquake in the netherlands is the last i'd expect, but with the gas extraction makes sense :)

@trinsec the 6.4 earthquake? didn't expect it to travel that far to be noticeable, but i don't know anything about seismics :)

seems that 2020 keeps on delivering :( #croatia #earthquake

@namark i never said "you are my enemy" but pointed out the hypocrisy and similarity to facism which worked by the same means and actions. i have every right to be pissed at this, as it's completely bullshit and actively _against_ left ideas. then you came along and tried to construct a logical fallacy around that. 💁

@namark

you really have a problem differentiating between decisions people are free to make and reflect upon, and intrinsic unchangeable traits. we are talking about the decisions here. repeating stuff without reflecting upon it is a decision, not an intrinsic trait.

if someone says "$skincolor people bad" it's targeting an intrinsic, unchangeable trait and is bullshit. if someone says "people mindlessly repeating things like '$skincolor people bad'" are bad, it's targeting a conscious decision.

@freemo

@namark @freemo of course, thats the fun thing about it!

@namark

see also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_dynamics

@freemo

@namark

actually, it's not a new discovery but how church and politics always have worked. humans like to be in an in-group and do things which are expected from members of that group. this is well documented, a prominent example being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment)

@freemo

@freemo

maybe the dutch are more relaxed than germans? or maybe my sample group is simply more extreme.

anticapitalists with new iphones giving you lectures are a classic example here. as are people caring about immigrants (which is important) but saying that environmental issues are not relevant with a straight face, ignoring that environmental problems are a major reason for immigration. it can really be infuriating seeing those people succeed because they scream louder.

@namark

@freemo @namark my limited life experience tells me that if someone declares _being_ left, it's show, will be thrown overboard as convenient, and it's likely a bully. people who act decent don't have to declare moral superiority and people aren't absolved of being shit by declaring the "correct" political alignment.

@freemo @namark i'm no native english speaker, so i am happy for your rephrasing as i've might have written things a bit too plain :)

i actually am in europe and have the feeling that these behaviours are crawling in from discourse in the USA, maybe currently in a more moderate form. things aren't discussed properly anymore, they are declared dogma.

@freemo @namark
in the end it is about shitty people, yes. a problem is that non-shitty left-people are forced to be shitty out of fear of being canceled.

there are many good ideas on the left, but with this climate of fear i can't support them as i view the behaviour of many as unethical. i can talk with right leaning people about those things and while we might not agree, it's not a BLOCKED&REPORTED&CANCELED-fest afterwards.

i think my pain point is that there is no centrism anymore where ideas a discussed and compromises are made. which is imho the only way to get things to get better, without violence.

@namark maybe it's me being a touchscreen peasant.. :> but i can't quite follow you.
if someone is making political statements, i don't need a radar for that, i don't have to know how they look. excluding and shitting on people just because they belong to a major group isn't better than if it happens to a minority. this kind of behaviour will only make things worse.
i don't fucking care what people _are_ as long as they act decent. many modern left behaviours explicitly go contrary to that.

@namark and isn't dividing by political self association different from dividing by unchangable things like your ancestry or sexuality?