bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 @bonifartius@social.cleverlibre.org

@Pat 31% .. people really have no sense of humor, do they xD

@tripu @ceoln
don't "when i was younger" me.

i _was_ commie. after that i _was_ a proponent of "democracy".

there is a war in europe going with only "democracies" participating. democracy forces farmers in the netherlands to close their farms because the nitrogen they produce is supposedly killing natura2000 areas. while democracy is loosening the rules to enable building bird shredding wind turbines near or in natura2000 areas. democracy declared truckers as terrorists for parking, blocking and honking. democracy locked up julian assange, chelsea manning, and many more. democracy bombed and killed millions in middle east, lying to everyone about weapons of mass destruction. etc. ad nauseam.

these injustices and this blood in the name of "democracy" is on my hands, it is on your hands, it is on the hands of everyone.

everything is fine while the chains are long and the collars are nicely padded. they even come in different flavors to pick from!

what are you going to do when you are drafted for WW3 against russia and china? won't happen because "democracy"? that's what the poor ukrainean men put to the front after two weeks of training also thought.

picture millions of young fathers and sons leaving their families at gunpoint, knowing they'll be dead in a few weeks.

i know this will very likely happen to me too. we're already late for ww3. our politicians will be safe. the government thugs rounding up people to send them to war will be safe. they are "essential workers".

countless lives wasted just because people hadn't enough courage to be free.

@m0urs @franko @rick
ich finds super, das künstliche leiden des patienten BRD wird mit jedem verblasenem euro verkürzt.

die euros werden übrigens einfach irgendwo versickern, in der ukraine kommt davon bei der bevölkerung garnichts an.

@zeitkommentare man gut das die alle gimpft und geboostert sind! vielleicht löst sich damit das problem über die zeit von selbst. entlastet dann auch die rentenkasse.

@tripu @ceoln well, i think that either one assumes that the overwhelming majority of people are good and interested in cooperation. that means we don't need someone to rule us.

or one assumes that people are evil anyway. then the "democracies" will be guaranteed to degrade into fascism over time, just because the power attracts the most evil people.

it's that simple.

you just demanded explanations why things would work. the whole point is that i don't get to universally decide that for everyone. things could radically differ as long as you have property, universal nonviolence and as last resort self defense against someone attacking you, your things and others.

@ceoln @tripu
i'd actually do the same, mutual societies are a pretty good idea!

i see no problem in working together, i see a problem in forcing people to associate which is what the "red" anarchies _have_ to do.

with mutualism your property is respected, and you voluntarily give funds for a mutual business (or whatever). pretty cool!

@ceoln @tripu
well, what would _YOU_ do? :)

@ceoln @tripu
why should it be significantly worse though?

collectivist anarchisms are a oxymoron. how would you enforce the collectivist part? you'd have a body with the "right" to use violence against individuals.

those things are just communism with a fancy name. you can't disassociate from those things.

@ceoln @tripu
how often did this happen to you?

i once had my bike stolen. that's about it.

how things are done is upon the members of society to handle. that's the point about freedom, you have responsibility to handle things.

relying on the government to fix things will backfire as soon as the next _really bad_ psychopath is in power. those currently are just laymen.

@ceoln @tripu
aren't all those things happening now as well? :)

@ceoln
there's ownership and possession.

in libertarian philosophies you are the owner. you can _decide_ what happens to _your_ things. if those decisions are going to be made reality depends on if you are in possession. if the thief is in possession you still have ownership. this is exactly the same how our western - if not most - states handle things. it also is a pretty old concept in general.

following your line of thought you currently don't own your bike as well.

the thing you did achieve though is that you enabled someone all-powerful - the state - to steal your bike because you didn't pay your taxes. which the state invented. if you want to protect yourself against this robbery you are kidnapped or murdered.

@tripu

@ceoln
the rape & murder was in another part of the thread:

https://qoto.org/@tripu/110140219702295161

> My fellow humans are like me in some ways, some of the time. There’s a pretty wide distribution on some axes.

it isn't about food preferences but "not being asshole". which most people are likely not.

> [..] so people advocating for that should have some story as to how they would be dealt with, if they want to be taken seriously.

so, one would have to account for every possibility?

@tripu