@Genen

That argument is nonsense when you realize the level of CO2 increase in the last 100 years is unlike anything ever seen in the history of the earth and yet the temperature change still followed it exactly as predicted.

The temperature leading CO2 effect doesnt occur, its just a psudoargument made by manipulating the noise in temperature in dishonest ways (not using the sort of statistical analysis you would need to truely show this caused granger causality, which it fails to demonstrate when that is applied).

@Coyote

@freemo @Genen Not looking to expand this, but, 100 years is a bit short to try to map out the temp fluctuation with any real significant noise reduction (couple other things). I don't have time to check the links again, but I'd trust ocean temps more than atmospheric, but even that would have to be a mesh of multiple sample points. I'm sure there's more, but for now, not really high on my issue list. But, I'll follow it, just can't contribute much time to the topic this week.
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@Coyote

Its more than 100 years, closer to 200 that we have day to day level of detail on temp. Which is long enough for granger causality to show temp follows CO2 far more strongly than CO2 follows temp.

That said there **is** some degree of CO2 rising following a temperature rise, but until that reaches a cascade point is minimal. So what we see is CO2 rises, temperature rises significantly, this triggers a slight increase in CO2 and the temperature rises slightly more before stabilizing. The second reaction is non linear though so there is a tipping point where if we raise the global temperature enough via CO2 then there will be a runaway reaction (or so the theory goes) where CO2 will be released in ever increasing amounts and we fry. But that runaway part is harder to prove and more questionable.

@Genen

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