🇳🇱
@realcaseyrollins I am in no way anti-vax, though also dont think this vaccine is effective enough to be a viable solution (no how matter how many boosters they come up with)... all that said, fauci's handling and advice has been absolute shit.
I also spoke to someone last weekend whose kid is going through alternative healthcare methods because of adverse vaccine affects, and he said the doctors blame the adverse affects on an overloaded immune system because the body was already producing antibodies and getting a vaccine while already producing antibodies basically wrecks the immune system and overwhelms your body because it's trying to do too much. I'll need to verify it but if that's true it makes sense and means the vaccines aren't as dangerous as I thought
@realcaseyrollins @freemo
Please get vaccinated. You have no idea what are you talking about.
The more vaccinated, the less the virus will mutate.
While I am in no way suggesting people shouldnt get vaccinated. I think the vaccines are safe enough to warrant it, your comment about mutation is not accurate.
While more people having the virus and fewer people vaccinated, means more mutations, it also means there is less selection for mutations that circumvent the vaccine.
In a society that is minimally vaccinated so only its most at-risk members are vaccinated then the virus evolution is not selected for varients that circumvent the vaccines. The act of being vaccinated literally caused the varients that are more effective at circumventing the vaccine from being selected for and thus thriving to the point of being a problem.
The medical community right now is reevaluating the approach of trying to get everyone vaccinated for that very reason and while it is not official advice just yet it is being considered that a better gameplan moving forward is to only vaccinate at-risk individuals and leave others unvaccinated to prevent a repeat of what happened in Israel
Okay, but the vaccinated have less chance to get infected and once they do, they infect less.
So it's better the scenario where everybody is vaccinated compared with the other scenario.
In this scenario, there are less mutation because there's less opportunity for evolution to do it's magic.
All the variants came from countries with low vaccination rates (at the time the variant was created).
Get vaccinated.
Generally this is true for most vaccines, but coronavirus long term the vaccines may be doing more harm than good, at least en mass. (and this is a very real discussion in the medical community)
While you are right that when vaccinated you reduce the spread of the main serotype of the virus. You are also somewhat, though less, protected from variants.
However by having a community that is near 100% vaccinated mean that the variants thrive while the main branch dies off. This means the act of vaccinating literally creates a more lethal strain of the virus that becomes dominant. While you may be protected by this it means people with immune disorders who cant be vaccinated, and some of the lederly who are too weak, are now at **greater** risk than they were before.
Assuming the pattern holds (and its most reasonable to think it will) if we start developing boosters for ever more lethal strains the situation will get worse and worse over time until we create a mega-bug and really screw ourselves over.
If anything the developments in israel where we are seeing this pattern unfold should tell us we should put a hold on getting vaccinated en mass, focus on just vaccinating those most at risk, and reconsider our approach entierly.
@freemo @realcaseyrollins
The problem is not the vaccines, but the vaccine in singular.
We have to use several brands and probably combine them
Its too early to say with 100% certainty if any vaccine regimen will work. But that has a potential to fail as well.
Remember we have never in the history of man kind ever made a coronavirus vaccine that actually was effective, despite trying many times. The reason has always been two fold 1) the virus mutates too quickly and 2) the bodies immune response to coronaviruses are incomplete and diminishes over time proportional to the severity of the infection.
These two points are a recipe for disaster and why the approach we take with the flu vaccine of combining strains is likely not to work. Remember flu vaccines are DNA type, they arent actually mutating int he classical sense, they are doing whats called recombination, something only DNA type viruses do. This is a very predictable sort of mutation, and very easy to create multiple vaccines for before they actually get into the wild.
Coronaviruses on the other hand undergo more classical mutation, and very rapidly. That is, we are seeing brand new point mutations in the RNA itself creating entierly new genes that are not simply the combination of old genes reshuffled. This makes it hard to predict what the mutations will be to stay ahead of them and even harder to garuntee future varients dont become more deadly (which doesnt really happen with DNA based).
In fact due to #2 above its unlikely you could ever reach heard immunity at all so if you really tried to just go all in on the vaccines and do all variants at once and try to vaccinate everyone very very quickly, you will likely make things even worse, not better.
@freemo @realcaseyrollins ok. But covid is a rna virus. So it's mutation process is different
Isnt that exactly what I just said. Your approach would work on a DNA virus, but not an RNA virus.
