@Eris Thanks for proving my point, that people too stupid to pass the above test will also be too stupid to assert actual facts correctly.

@freemo Your only point seems to be vague condescension against anything contradicting you.
If it's not a fact, say how. If you can't say how, I'll assume you're full of shit.

@Eris I've addressed this topic in detail dozens of times on my time line. Every time the anti-vax morons just spew nonsense and ignore or arent smart enough to comprehend the reality. So yes at this point I stopped putting int he effort because its a waste of my time.

@freemo
>I've addressed this topic in detail dozens of times on my time line.
Offering excuses for why you don't have to argue reflects very poorly on your argument.
>So yes at this point I stopped putting int he effort because its a waste of my time.
You can't be mad at "misinformation" that you aren't willing to correct. Pick a stance. It's one or the other. Either you care or you don't.

@Eris @freemo >pronouns in bio
sorry you dont get an opinion soyfag

@freemo @Eris why do you invite further discussion if ur intention is to simply ignore it where it doesn't agree with ur existing stance

@Oblivia

I didnt invite further discussion. Quite the opposite. The OP shows the basic level of knowledge a person needs to have before even approaching the subject, of which most anti-vaxers dont have. So it explicitly suggests people unable to pass the test DONT discuss it, the opposite of inviting it.

@Eris

@freemo @Oblivia You don't need qualifications to discuss things. We're gonna discuss it whether you like it or not. You can either engage in that discussion or admit that you can't handle it and hate free speech.

@Eris

You dont need to understand a topic to discuss it, no. But you look like an idiot, and are an idiot, if you assert things as facts on a subject you dont understand.

@Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia
>But you look like an idiot
You look like an idiot to me. Do you care?
Why do you expect me to care how I look to you?
Anyone you disagree with will look like an idiot. That's how disagreeing works.

@freemo @Eris if layman are unable to properly understand the subject, how can they give informed consent to participation in the trial of this drug

@Oblivia

A person doesnt know how to do heart surgery, yet can give informed conscent to have surgery.

@Eris

@freemo @Oblivia That's a very weird definition of informed.

@freemo @Eris a person can be shown in great detail what will happen to them during that procedure, they will be given resources and access todecades of documentation on the risks and outcomes if they need more info to decide. its a bit different when there is no such documentation available yet

@Oblivia

In that case you have a person defering to an expert. They dont understand the surgery or its technicals in any sense, they simply trust the risk assesment and details given to them by a professional. No different than with vaccines really, a person typically wont understand the subject, but they can defer to their doctors risk assesment and side effects and other details to make an informed decision despite not understanding the subject.

@Eris

@freemo @Oblivia Sorry I'm not deferring my judgement to anyone, let alone big pharma.

@Eris

Of course not, it is quite obvious that despite being uninformed on the topic that you arent deferring to anyone who is informed on it either.

@Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia If they want me to buy their product they can inform me that it is a good product. They aren't doing that, and yet they whine that I don't want to buy their product.
Unlike you, I am not willing to just trust them implicitly.

@Eris

There are plenty of good reasons not to want to get vaccinated or to think it isnt safe enough or well tested yet. Thats not the issue. The issue is the morons who try to say its actually dangerous or killing people and spreading misinformation they clearly dont understand (like the usual lie about thousands of recorded deaths)

@Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia
>The issue is the morons who try to say its actually dangerous or killing people and spreading misinformation they clearly dont understand
How is it misinformation if it's true?
>(like the usual lie about thousands of recorded deaths)
How is it a lie if it's true?

@Eris

Because its not true and is quite easy to show why. The lie about thousands of deaths comes from a misunderstanding of VARES, which does not actually list confirmed COVID deaths.

@Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia
>Because its not true and is quite easy to show why.
Please do so.
>The lie about thousands of deaths comes from a misunderstanding of VARES, which does not actually list confirmed COVID deaths.
It's literally not possible to confirm a COVID death. Either way, you are assuming. If they are going to assume all respiratory illnesses are COVID deaths I see parity in assuming all VAERS are vaccine deaths.
If pharmacorps wanted a different standard of information they should have held themselves to one.

@freemo
I just don't understand your motivation, dude.
https://www.medscape.com/sites/public/covid-19/vaccine-insights/how-concerned-are-you-about-vaccine-related-adverse-events
@Eris @Oblivia

@freemo
this is your "statistics"...

@Eris @Oblivia

@Eris @freemo where i do not have information about reliability of the product, i must lean on the reliability of the company. and historically the companies involved in producing these products have shown recklessness with the safety and health of their clients, it seems foolish to place my trust there

@freemo @Eris which still relies on the availability of data on previous medical outcomes, which takes years to gather. that can't be said of a new drug still in testing phase

@Oblivia

Informed conscent doesnt mean you know enough to be an oracle. It means you know the risks we do know, and the risks of the unknown. Knowing its a new drug and that that infers certain risks of the unknown is part of informed conscent, and a perfectly reasonable rason to be hesitant.

I'm not vaccinated, I have no intention of vaccinating until we have better data and the vaccines are out longer. I am not against anyone who is vaccine hesitant or doesnt want tog et vaccines. I am against the idiots spewing misinformation as a means to justify the that decision however.

@Eris

@freemo @Oblivia

> It means you know the risks we do know
So pharmacorps lying to us that the vaccines have no risks whatsoever makes it uninformed consent, right?

@Eris

If/when someone were to lie in that way, yes.

Thankfully the risks we do know (such as 40 per million mycarditis, or the 2 cases of blood clots) are on the sheets of side effects. Despite being quite rare they dont really hide it most of the time. If someone does hide it then yes, that is wrong of them.

@Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia So when Fauci, the state, pharma corps, and mass media all tell me that anyone saying there is any risk to the vaccines at all is insane, they are committing fraud, right?

@freemo

https://www.medscape.com/sites/public/covid-19/vaccine-insights/how-concerned-are-you-about-vaccine-related-adverse-events

@Oblivia @Eris

@freemo @Eris um yeah u did, the post is public, topical, and u seem willing to actively respond to its replies, how is this not an open invitation to discuss the subject

@Oblivia

You seem to be confusing "an open invitation" with.. "something likely to provoke responses".. not the same thing. I have no issue putting in the low effort of calling someone an idiot if they decide to respond anyway (which is expected).. takes no time out of my day.

@Eris

@freemo @Oblivia
>I have no issue putting in the low effort
You do seem to have an issue with putting in effort thougj. Curious.

@Eris

Nah, I've put in high effort responses dozens of times int he past. Some were with people it was a waste of time with. Some actually had enough knowledge and understanding for it to be worthwhile.

@Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia Just telling us that you are capable of reason in the abstract somewhere else where we can't see it doesn't actually boost your credibility. It damages it. It makes you seem like you're not capable of it, but want to seem like you are.
Trying to offer excuses not to be reasonable is literally always a losing move.

@Eris

Agreed. I do not expect nor claim to have made any sort of argument to suggest I should be trusted here. I more than happy to just point out the stupidity and move on.

@Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia You explicitly attribute the responsibility for deaths to anti-vaccine rhetoric. Are you telling me that you believe these people are responsible for mass murder, but that you're okay with that and it should be legal? Very weird mixture of opinions there buddy.

@Eris

Yes it results in mass murder. No I am not ok with it. Not being ok with it does not mean I think it should be against the law though. The law should not reflect morality as far as I'm concerned.

@Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia

>Yes it results in mass murder. No I am not ok with it. Not being ok with it does not mean I think it should be against the law though.
This is the most insane fucking nonsense I have ever read in my entire life.
Mass murder should be legal.
Holy shit dude.

@Eris

Yup, it should be, because intent is 4/5ths of the law as they say. Commiting mass murder but not intending to, or even knowing your doing it, is perfectly legal, and im ok with that.

@Oblivia

@freemo @Eris @Oblivia

@freemo @Oblivia That would be mass manslaughter. Mass manslaughter is (and should be) also illegal.
Your argument is so incoherent that in order to try to main some semblance of consistency you have contorted yourself into saying absolutely ridiculous things dude.

@freemo
This guy ^^^ muted me. He doesn't actually as I call him an "asshole"...

@Eris @Oblivia

@freemo @Eris split hairs if u want, its open to replies so if u immediately dismiss half of them as idiots its unreasonable to expect that ur responses should be taken seriously

@Oblivia

Right, as I said I really couldnt care less if the people the meme calls out take me seriously or not. They arent really worth the effort. I prefer to debate with people who are capable of learning and changing views.

@Eris

@freemo @Oblivia Can you show me an example of you literally ever doing that?
I'm here right now, asking you to change my view, and you keep refusing. It seems more like you prefer to debate with people who are incapable of changing their views, and already agree with you.

@freemo @Eris and now i wonder, are you capable of learning in this process, or are you only speaking on it to sway others to your stance

@freemo @Eris LMAO. Go ahead and tell me governments having dictatorial power over people's body autonomy through coercion is a good thing.

@Telvannichad

When did I ever say that. I have been vocal and against the government forcing vaccinations.

@Eris

@freemo @Telvannichad You have made many posts in this very thread supporting vaccine mandates as "necessary."

@freemo @Eris you still took it tho right? Wouldn't that prove to The Hague to you bent the knee?

@Telvannichad

No I am not vaccinated.

@Eris