A quick history lesson. From 1940-1980:
•Wealthiest paid 70-94% marginal tax
•0 of them went broke from taxation
•0 of them left USA
•All remained exceedingly wealthy
•Manufacturing boomed
•The middle class was 62% of US economy (It's now 40% post 'trickle down scamenomics)
•We had the strongest middle class growth in US History
Let's do that again. Stop protecting billionaires. Start taxing them.
#TaxBillionaires
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@QasimRashid I mean, It was abusive and unfair, which is enough reason for me to give it a hard no... **no one** should be taked out of 94% of their income, regardless if they can survive it.
That said, I can pretty much garuntee the whole "0 of them left" and "0 of them went broke" is pure nonsense, you have a source for that?
@freemo that’s not how progressive tax systems (including the now-watered-down one in the US) works. No one paid 94% of their entire income in tax, pre-Reagan - that would have been a flat tax system (which the US has never had to my knowledge), and as you so rightly point out is grotesquely unfair (especially to lower income workers) @QasimRashid
Yes I am well aware how income tax works. But yes as you get father above the 200K bracket the closeryoull get to 94%. So yes you have tax rates abusively high for the rich that can approach 94%, if your rich enough you are effecitvely paying 94%.
@freemo again, that’s not how progressive tax systems work. Khan Academy has a good explainer that might help explain where you’re going wrong: https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/core-finance/taxes-topic/taxes/v/tax-brackets-and-progressive-taxation @QasimRashid
Please feel free to explain specifically where you think i went wrong. I deal with these sorts of taxes daily as the EVP of a company.
@freemo @pmonks @QasimRashid
Now Dr. Explain to us how tax credits and tax write offs work to lessen the tax burden for the wealthy. Not to even mention the tax deferrals offered in 401ks and IRAs. So the real question is not what is the tax bracket you're in but what is the effective tax rate you actually pay. That's why Buffet says his secretary pays more in tax than he does.
Yes they legally use the writeoffs and other benefits availible to everyone. If there is a specific writeoff you feel is unjust or only applies to the wealthh im open to discuss
@freemo I did, here: https://sfba.social/@pmonks/110282526345680037 You changed the subject in your subsequent reply. @MikeBon
@freemo you didn’t read the post I linked, assumed it was a different one, and then addressed the wrong point in. If you wish to police how this discussion is conducted then I encourage you to engage with it in good faith and actually read waa is written than jumping to (wrong) conclusions. @MikeBon
@freemo perhaps your client isn’t functioning correctly, so I’ll literally reproduce the text again here:
“for example one can’t claim charitable donation deductions if one is living paycheck-to-paycheck and deciding whether to pay rent or utilities this month - there’s no disposable income available to be making such donations”
This comment isn’t about the wealthy, it’s about the poor. You still haven’t address that point (which was also one of the first one raised in this thread i.e. that these kinds of legal tax loopholes are _not_ available to all).
@freemo so you’re retracting your earlier assertions, made here: https://qoto.org/@freemo/110282585223431110 and here: https://qoto.org/@freemo/110282585223431110 where you claim that everyone has access to these kinds of tax loopholes? @MikeBon
They dont, and you really arent listening.. how does a rich person use the loophole to save money? If they make 200 million and spend 10 million on charity in orser to save 1 million in taxes all they did was cost themselves 9 million. So it is not a loophole for the rich or the poor, it isnt a loophole for anyone...
I didnt say thry dont benefit from tax deductions.. if you cant e en listen to the basic things people say enough to repeat what they said accurately how do you expect people to keep interacting with you?
I am not retracting the claim. The poor have equal access to charitable deductions. They engage in fewer of thrm so would use them less, but since its not a loophole or something a person can exploit to save money it isnt relevant to my claim.
@freemo you're being purposely obtuse. Again using exclusivity is irrelevant. The greater the wealth the greater the benefit. Effective tax rate is all that matters.
@MikeBon i specifically didnt use the word exclusively.. give an example of a tax cut that benefits the rich and hownit would need to be changed to benefit everyone. Then we can discuss it.
@freemo most business taxes are not available to those not wealthy enough to own a business. The same with the several tax breaks for owning real estate.
@MikeBon you can file as self employed even if you dont have a business in the typical sense. In fact every person who is washing windows, doing odd jobs, etc are all under business taxes, and these are the kinds of jobs we expect the homeless to do.
The idea that 1099 basdd worked isnt an option for the poorer end of the spectrum is nonsense. In fact quite the opposite, most rich people, even if they own the company, are working for tbeir own company as a w2. There are quite a few barriers that specifically prevent the rich from getting tax breaks forcing thrn onto a w2 for their own business.
@freemo idk who you think you're fooling but it ain't me.
@MikeBon No one is fooling anyone, we are trying to have a discussion. Either engage in that if you wish or feel free to move along.
@freemo there is no point in engaging with you.
@MikeBon then move along. Do us both a favor if you feel that way. No need to announce it.
@freemo I'll decide when to move on, thank you very much.
@MikeBon haha ok waste everyones time then adding no value and blowing hot air if thats what you want. Lol
@freemo likewise. See I can play the, I need the last word game, too.
@MikeBon No i am actively trying to engage and understand your views and discuss them.. you were doing fine but as of the last few messages seem to be quickly progressing towards a tantrum.
@freemo you know damn well that as I and others have said repeatedly the tax code is designed with tax write offs, credits, deferrals and other advantages that benefit the wealthy far greater than the ordinary American. To argue otherwise is disingenuous.
@freemo charitable donations (at least in the US) work by reducing income, which means it can shift someone into a lower tax bracket. That can save substantially more than the amount of the donation. @MikeBon