So the moral of the story... when it comes to engaving with people specifically republicans/conservatives are more tolerant than democrats/neoliberals..
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@freemo@social.cleverlibre.org
@freemo It doesn't surprise me as a gut feel but I don't really know why it may be so.
@freemo Do you think participants were evenly distributed?
@admitsWrongIfProven Not at all. I dont think anyone would consider this a high quality randomly sampled data point.
@freemo So i guess... the moral is that we have way more democrats than republicans here :-)
@admitsWrongIfProven possibly. But the results are so extrmely skewed (0 to 12) that youd need a pretty extreme skew in the population participating in the poll as well. Of the two kt seems far more reasonable that the population is t so extremely skewed
@freemo Looking at what kinds of posts i see locally, i'd say the exteme skew is quite possible.
I'm not saying your conclusion was neccessarily wrong, just that it does not follow from the survey.
@admitsWrongIfProven there is absolutely a strong skew, but if i had to speculate id say its a bit of both at play... but hey whats worse democrats probably block more but republicans probably replace blocking with trolling more often. So it doesnt really say that much about true tolerance either way
@freemo I'd go even further and say that strong identification with a group over concern for the topics discussed indicates a lack of tolerance in either case. If we're already speculating...
@admitsWrongIfProven there is that... but we may be talki g about people who are jjst mildly democrats and not to tbe extreme end.. leaning left but close to center.
@freemo The parties of the american two-party system are a fascinating topic. From over here it looks like they eliminated discussions about contents nearly entirely in favour of position debates.
I would feel better about this if it wasn't already leaking to my country, where the stock "conservative" party is embracing the worst of examples.
@admitsWrongIfProven the two-party system is a myth. We have multiple parties and candidates on each ballot. We have also had 8 different majority parties over the course of the usa... it looks like twonparties simply because americans were convinced thats how it work and have this idiotic idea that if they vote for anyone else its a wasted vote.
@freemo So it's a myth, but still what happens in reality.
Similarly, i do wonder why nobody votes for "third" partys here and just remix those that have proven to not act in our interests.
@freemo @admitsWrongIfProven What? No, our system itself enforces the two-party system.
The "first-past-the-post" nature of the electoral college necessarily encourages coalition building into two large powers.
@LouisIngenthron @admitsWrongIfProven
Its only a theory called a law erroneously. And with the major larties switching 8 times in us history and multiple times in other similar voting systems it shows it is not a twonparty system in thr typical sense in that other parties can and do break in and typically the shifts are fairly radical causing them to get majority shares in only one or two election cyles, showing that other parties can and do compete.
@freemo @LouisIngenthron Sorry if this might go off topic a moment, but i am reminded of that experiment with apes: punish them for climbing a ladder towards food, replace them one by one, the new group will still not climb the ladder and stop newcomers from doing so.
Back to the topic:
We should distinguish between a two party system by law and a two party system in practice.
The former is what we all love to mock, the latter is what we have.
Not only in the USA, although the laughably similar choices here in germany are more than two. One could say it's like a club system, limited entry, but no ouvertly posted rules one could object to.
I think its more fundemental than even that,, it comes down to what you mean by a two party system...
I think the two party system we have simply means "whatever two parties are the most popular, even if its marginally more so, will receive disperportionatly more votes.
Whether this translates tot he fact that other third parties will have a harder time breaking in (and thus a wasted vote) Id say is the part that is untrue, which is why we see third parties break in all the time and go from 1% to 51% in a single election cycle historically.
@freemo @LouisIngenthron Indeed too much variability could be a problem, yet i would argue the status quo selection of parties available in many societys lacks multiple positions much needed by the general populace.
The fact that many people vote with regard to what they expect to be a "wasted vote" might have part in keeping it that way. Strategic voting, a similar way of thinking, is also something i consider harmful to the democratic process.
@admitsWrongIfProven @freemo @LouisIngenthron
With regard to the skewed poll results, I think it might be a definition issue. Neoliberalism has much more overlap with Republicans than Democrats. Democrats are more social liberals whereas a huge chunk of conservatives are neoliberals, i.e., those who are modern proponents of classical liberalism.
@freemo He he he, look what i found, we're not the only ones discussing this today:
@freemo It could be that the right wingers have already cut you off and thus missed the survey (or are over on Truth Social and not ever here). Or, it could be due to definitions of "engagement". The extended family members with whom we have chosen not to engage with much see themselves as very tolerant. They are adamantly non racist, they think that they don't even see color. As evangelists, it is their job to inform the rest of the family that certain attributes ("chosen behaviors") such as homosexuality, or beliefs, such as rejecting their version of Christianity or voting Democratic, will lead straight to hell (which to them is a literal place). That's not seen as intolerance, they see it as "love". They very much want to be "family" and engage with us. They would very much want to share a family dinner. But the rest of us couldn't even get to please pass the potatoes without enduring a lengthy prayer for our souls. And really, it is hard to know what to say. The only hope is that there are more open to discussion offspring involved.
@Gaythia yea plenty of explanations. Though in my expiernce the poll is fairly legitimate, the left will block people who disagree with their views pretty quickly politically. the right doesnt, but the right has other issues, they are far more likely to follow you around and troll you instead, so im not sure thats any better.
@freemo As an outsider, "following the money" (donors) and power structures, it doesn't seem to be any difference between the two parties, but perhaps the people identifying with said parties have different ideals.
@freemo So it seems!
https://qoto.org/@tripu/109800583585516619