Listening to #TimcastIRL and I can’t believe that everyone is arguing against their guest #PrestonParra and saying that they should be continuing to bomb #Gaza rather than switching from bombs to the #IDF’s planned ground invasion. The bombing campaign clearly leads to more collateral damage and is less precise.
Like, yes #TimPool, I understand that somewhere close to the majority of Palestinians support #Hamas, but that doesn’t mean that you choose an option that leads the a certain amount of collateral damage when a less deadly option is available.
It’s also interesting that #TimPool doesn’t think that #Israel’s blockade is a war crime. Like, he has a great point, that it really shouldn’t be #Israel’s job to give #Gaza food and water since they’re an independent state, technically, and not a part of #Israel, but starving civilians is still, as I understand it, a violation of the #GenevaConventions.
I think the only way you get out of such a claim is by saying that it’s #Hamas’ fault that #Gaza doesn’t have water because they’ve failed to build up the proper infrastructure despite having the ample opportunity to do so, which is actually true as they have bragged about destroying, for example, water infrastructure provided to them by the #UN.
🇳🇱
@realcaseyrollins They have been doing similar shit since before Hamas even attacked.. Now they have an excuse it will just get worse.
@freemo There is too much international pressure fight now for it to get any worse. If they can turn on the water (I suspect #Hamas has sabotaged the waterways in #Gaza), I think they will do that before their ground invasion, which I’m expecting sometime within the next 48 hours or so, especially if #Hamas releases those 50 additional hostages as rumored.
Lets hope your right... Never seemed to stop them before
@freemo I thought for sure that international pressure was always the main reason they’ve allowed #Hamas to fester for so long.
We in the West are utterly cucked and are loath to approve of war tactics. We think war shouldn’t be done if it can’t be clean, so there really isn’t a way for #Israel to do what is necessary to get rid of #Hamas that doesn’t make us mad to some extent. The main things that have changed are that because of what #Hamas did, the West better understands the need to get rid of #Hamas, and #Israel on the other hand cares less that the West doesn’t approve of the #IDF doing everything they can to get rid of them.
@realcaseyrollins No one has ever had a problem with them getting rid of Hamas..t he problem is thats not what israel has done.. every time they make war they 1) take land from the people 2) mostly engage in war crimes like using small children as shields (as has been discussed).
If what israel did, however, was Occupy the territory, actually remove the hamas, and then install a good government, this could have been solved a long time ago.
You wonder why they dont? Because as long as they let hamas "fester" then they can keep using it as an excuse to take more land.. solving the hamas would take away their one scapegoat for genocide, so of course they wont.
@freemo Haha nah man, to this day the international community is increasingly chiding the #IDF for even thinking about doing what would be necessary to destroy #Hamas. The calls are growing for a ceasefire. I think it is hilarious to think that the people calling for a ceasefire truly care about #Hamas being defeated.
The West has refused to learn that being nice to #Hamas has led to them continuing to exist. Now it’s #Israel’s turn to decide whether or not they care. The #IDF knows better what to do than we in the West do.
@realcaseyrollins LOL you think they have power to take 70% of the land away from them but not hte power to just occupy the land and depose the government... Come on man its a lot easier to occupy a country than to to literally kick 100% of the people off of it and take it completely over.
No I dont recall anyone saying that.
Right, no part of that statement claims 100% of palestinians support Hamas.
Israel didnt exist before the jews started invading... They invaded and took something like 60% of the land, and kicked 100% of the people out of their homes on that land, managed to move them to the 40% or so of the land they were allowed to.. They literally relocated more than half of an **entire nation*.. cleared them off the land, and built on it.
It would have taken a **fraction** of the effort to not relocate anyone or take any land but rather occupy the territory like we did for germany, and replace the government entierly.. Replacing governments is **obviously** much easier than relocating 60% of a nation into the remaining 40% of the nation.
@freemo I don’t really care since none of that, even if true, justifies terrorism. There is war now, one side needs to win.
Huh, intentionally keeping terrorism alive so you can justify taking land and committing genocide, particularly when your side is known for also committing terrorism is quite relevant.
@realcaseyrollins What nonsense are you on... No one in modern warfar has ever justified the taking of someone elses land.
In WWII the worst offender in terms of aggression in history, at least modern history, were the germans... completely unprovoked as well... They didnt loose **any** land. Why? Because most decent human beings see taking land in war as unethical.
@freemo Surprising take TBH. Countries who win wars aren’t allowed to conquer the land? The #UN didn’t take any land from #Egypt? 🤔
The #Israel vs. #Palestine war is the first time I’ve ever heard people say “no fair, you stole our land after we lost a war with you”. Like, I’m a lil surprised at what people think war is exactly.
@freemo Hmm. Needed to double check to make sure I wasn’t misremembering
Are you seriously sitting here and trying to say the soviets took germany for themselves and moved in?
This is exactly my point.. they **temporarily** occupied the land, they didnt kick the germans off of it and take it.. they let the germans stay, they moved in and controlled their governments temporarily until the government could be safely replaced and there was no fear of a repeat.. which they did.
You do realize germany today is all germans, because... and wait for it... they were never kicked out off their land and replaced by the victors....
@freemo I mean those Germans also never waged war against their occupiers, did they? Not sure that they did any intafadas over there.
But you’re right, the two situations are somewhat dissimilar. I’m not sure what the argument is for saying that you’re not allowed to conquer an enemy after you’ve beaten them. Is this in the #GenevaConventions?
Why you cant displace an entire population by telling the native people of a country to get the hell off the land?
Ummm... you do understand the most basic rule of war is you dont wage war against civilians right? like its way more basic thant he geneva convention buddy.
@realcaseyrollins Yes, if they did that from the get go they might have a leg to stand on as the good guy.
@freemo Interesting.
That’s an optimal one state solution. I would prefer a two state solution where Palestine is a separate entity.
My only concern is that due to the conflict, many Palestinians would continue to hate #Israel and continue to attack the state, so I’m not sure that this would lead to peace.
@realcaseyrollins Well no that approach can be one or two state.
In a two state solution israel only acts as a transitional govt. The goal being to install a good democratic non-terroristic govt then leave and allow them to self-govern once they can be trusted (it is likely a long process)... so int he end it can result in two separate states.
@FreedoingVlad @freemo I’m doing wishful thinking here. Keep up buddy!
Sadly freedoing does have a point.. that being that "wishful thinking" is likely not going to resemble anything close to possibilities in this conflict. It hasnt represented the conflict in 80 years, why would it start to represent it now?
> Surprising take TBH. Countries who win wars aren’t allowed to conquer the land? The #UN didn’t take any land from #Egypt? 🤔
The UN isnt a country, what are you on about they dont own **any** land.
> The #Israel vs. #Palestine war is the first time I’ve ever heard people say “no fair, you stole our land after we lost a war with you”. Like, I’m a lil surprised at what people think war is exactly.
What? What modern war do you know of where land was taken and people were ok with it?
Russia annexing georgia and people lost their shit.
Russia trying to annex Ukrain, people are upset.
WWII Germany kept 100% of their territory
Iraq war, Afghan war, 100% of territory kept by loosing sides.
Honestly what war can you even think of where someone took land fromt he other side **permanently** and people didnt loose their shit? I cant think of a single one.
WWII Germany kept 100% of their territory
That’s just not true.
Maybe I was mistaken and thinking that when they lost their land, it set a precedent in the modern world though.
@realcaseyrollins No thats exactly true...
west and east germany was divided wwhile it was **occupied**.. while the govt were replaced and then given back to the people
At no point did we kick the germans off of their land and move in.. it was **occupied** not taken
I am shocked you dont see the difference between moving in and taking over the government with a transitional occupation, vs literally kicking everyone who lived ont he land off of it and moving in your own people and taking the land for yourself to **live** on.
@freemo No you’re right 👍🏾
@realcaseyrollins That makes me feel a bit better :)
@realcaseyrollins hahaha what can I say, its a gift :)
@freemo @realcaseyrollins "WWII Germany kept 100% of their territory"
That’s, of course, not true. Just check a map of Germany in 1937 and one from today.
The rule to not take territory by war really only got written _after_ WWII.
@freemo Sorry, not quite. A part of the "German Reich" went to Poland. A small area around Königsberg (today Kaliningrad) became Russian territory. I always wished they had given a piece to the Israelis instead of Palestine - but probably the Jews would not have liked the neighborhood.
@realcaseyrollins
And what did they do with the people living there? Were they allowed to stay on their land?
@freemo No, most of them were made to fly west - if they had not already fled for fear of the Russian Army or were killed. This is a bit long for a Mastodon post - have a look here, for ex.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFormer_eastern_territories_of_Germany&psig=AOvVaw3vvW862HOUYgbPkNtRUMLP&ust=1698213084187000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBEQjRxqFwoTCODMqbmMjoIDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE
@freemo @GRA3432 @realcaseyrollins
Many of the refugees live in today's Germany (either have been here for decades or 2nd generations arriving recently) and tell that they feel foreign in both places, their former and their new home.
got smashed by rome 2000 years ago, been upset ever since, longest upset in history
became a parasite nation living inside other nations, finally convinced host nations for their own land after being kicked out of 109 of those nations
offered 10 potential pieces of land and more, demand about the worst desert piece of shit on the map surrounded by people that dont like them, genocided the people there and stole their land (((again))) causing the surrounding people to now hate them, continue to act like an asshole stealing more land and persecuting the people you conquered
https://image.nostr.build/4c53ae6149f7e7584fc7f0201ff50ae9c43246050ae55279a863e12000889e59.jpg
@freemo Hmm. Needed to double check to make sure I wasn’t misremembering.
Not always but yea that did happen... probably a bit better than genocide.. but not sure why we are comparing to barbaric practices from anctient history compared to modern warfare..
You truly are a crypto Jew. The Dutch country is infested by it. Makes sense.
@FreedoingVlad @freemo I could be wrong but I don’t think he’s Jewish.
Doesn't matter actually, though it struck me as quite typical.
The neterlands is one of few countries that regard ISrali settlements in palestine as illegal. They officially view Israel as contrary to international world.
So i wouldnt say supporting israel is all that typical of the dutch.
The Netherlands is infested with Jews and the Jewry is strong. The Dutch government upholds half baked position, supposedly (!) supporting an Israeli state per 1967. But they sure don't act up on it. The US ADL once voted the Netherlands as the number 2 least anti-semitic country (i.e. gives most handouts to Israel). Also the Dutch govt is infested with the Jewry (the only exception are the immigrant politicians).
The Dutch also host the the headquarters of the "Counter Jihad Movement". Every famous Jew is member of it.
And so forth and so forth. The masses are left, yes, but beneath the surface the country is lost and practically occupied.
You realize its still genocide even if people have babies right?
Here is some actual data about death tolls on both sides of this war up to 2020
When did I ever say that there wasnt a war (the war has been ongoing for 80 years) or that the hamas terrorism was justified? It is no more or less justified than the Israel gov't terrorism/genocide.. both side are int he wrong and I've stated as much many times.
Also: Israelis used terrorism all the time and it wasn't against people that wronged as badly as Israelis wronged the Palestinians. Look up Lehi and Irgun and the King David Bombing. Israel was built on jewish terrorism you fucking sped. You deserve a violent act of terrorism for being so dumb that I'm on Freemo's side.
“Oh but ‘terrorism’ is wrong according to Steve Urkel.”
Yes. I suspect this is where we disagree.
@PonyPanda @freemo If I was in #Israel’s position? Full scale ground invasion, obliteration of #Hezbollah via air assaults if they interfere, and then a coup of the #Hamas government in #Gaza. Then, depending on whether or not the Palestinians continue to be violent once a new government is installed, hand the government back to the Gazans, or deport them.
@realcaseyrollins My guess would be that when the Iralis used your brother or cousin or whoever as a human shield your desire to attack your own people woule fade very very quickly. After 80 years of them killing your family and commiting terrorist acts against your people you would just have a different view I am sure.
But all that other #bullshit you posted is just #retarded . The #kikes couldn't beat #ShiaChads of Hezbollah which is why they're not doing anything now. jews are a perfidious, craven and inglorious race. Imagine Woody Allen shitting his pants clutching a Tavor.
israel getting rekt by hezbollah.jpg
As much as I side with palestine given the history your use of racial slurrs and clear bias you have completely derailed **any** hope you had of making a coherent argument.. and this is from someone who technically agrees with your choice of sides.
Come on man its a lot easier to occupy a country than to to literally kick 100% of the people off of it and take it completely over.