Being afraid of what someone **might** do is no excuse for ensuring a person dies and stays dead. Least of all from a police officer.
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Not in the least, at no point during the encounter was chauvin assaulted or did Floyd at any point attempt to kill chauvin.. he struggled against and resisted arrest but didnt even take a swing at officers. So no, nothing rational about it.
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So you admit they wanted him dead and to remain dead on the off chance he might hurt someone if his life was saved.. bearing in mind at no point during the encounter did he attack a police officer, he resisted arrest but never actively assaulted an officers according to eye witnesses.
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By that logic I can go around shooting random black people and not be charged with murder simply because i have an irrational fear of black men.
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Based on the fact that once his heart stop beating he physically prevented fellow officers from saving him despite them trying to.. physically blocking people from trying to save a man who you know his heart has stopped shows clear intent you want the man dead.
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and I'd say that physically preventing fellow officers from trying to save his life after he is informed his heart stopped clearly shows the intent for Floyd to be dead. The only explanation you gave was fear, but as i said there is no reason that one would be scared of a man whos heart is known not to be beating.
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No not what i said, its clear the intent was to have him dead.. the motivation behind that intent isnt obvious as he never made that clear.
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No I said that is very common and the most likely among many possible motives.. implying that I can not be certain of the motive though it is very clear the murder was intentional.
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Nope, you a little retarded or something.. I said the exact opposite... He clearly demonstrated he wanted the man dead and thus is a bad guy. What makes him bad is speculation and less relevant.
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> So why did he want to kill him?
The most reasonable answer is because cops commonly go on a power trip and when this power is challenged (such as the cases of resisting arrest) they tend to get vengeful, a pattern I've personally witnessed several times. But this is just speculation, while it is very clear he intended the man to die we can only guess as to the multitude of murders.
> why was CPR not preformed at the scene?
We already covered this, because chauvin refused to let people perform CPR. As I already stated a fellow police officer on the scene when he detected no pulse immediately asked chauvin to get off so he could tend to Floyd, and this would have likely entailed CPR. Chauvin however refused his fellow officers request to try to care for Floyd and instead continued to sit on top of him preventing others from caring for him.
This is the very reason he is guilty as sin, he blocked his fellow officers active attempts to care for Floyd.
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> Why would he need to maintain the position if he was informed that the man was dead though?
He wouldnt, thats the point, unless his intent was for the man to die there is no reason to not only sit on the mans chest after being informed his heart stopped but to refuse to let his fellow officer help him when his fellow officer asked him to get off so he could tend to him.
> Furthermore you are assuming that there is a chance he could be revived. Once the body was loaded (since no CPR was attempted on scene by responders) we can assume that something was attempted. Since this did not revive Floyd I dont see how this would have made a difference how long the cop was on top of him.
It makes a **huge** difference, performing CPR shortly after the heart stopped (as the fellow officer was trying to do) may very well have saved his life. When a heart stops seconds/minutes count.
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No because the knee on the kneck could be excused away as neccesary when the man was alive in order to protect his own life (this is questionable but at least plausable).. So can be seen as self-defense. Once it (perhaps accidentally) caused the man to die the self-defense excuse evaporates, there is no need to maintain the position for self defense at that point and only serves the purpose of making sure the man dies and is not revived, so at that point it demonstrates the death wasnt accidental but purposeful.
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No you just arent paying attention. As I already covered simply killing someone is not enough to be charged with 2nd degree murder, for that you must show intent among other things.
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countless reasons, a suspicious death, unexpected or unexplained death, public health and safety concerns, etc.
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"It certainly wasnt the way he was holding him down"... both autopsy reports and several doctors all disagree with you there.
Quote from one autopsy examiner:
"died as a result of mechanical asphyxiation"
Quote from the other autopsy examiner:
"cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."
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When did I say he had no hand in his death, you just pulled that out of thin air.. You asked me if he got off him when his heart stopped if he should still be guilty, I said no.. I said nothing about if he had a hand in his death or not.
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re: uspol, acab
@noelle I am not sure that is the proper interpritation.. just because he doesnt have a consitutional obligation to protect can not be used to infer he had no obligation to protect under the eyes of the law. The law can be hard to follow and the wording often seems to say one thing when it is really saying another, I think that is the case here.
An officer who doesnt protect someone isnt violating the constitution, as Scalia points out, that doesnt mean he is innocent (as the constitution is not the end of the law). There are legal tests for Negligence, and an officer who does not protect would assuredly violate the legal test for negligence and be held accountable on those grounds. In fact for the 3rd degree manslaughter part of the Chauvin case this is exactly the test they applied to show his guilt.
Point being, Scalias write up is entierly correct, but it doesnt have the consequence that police dont have to protect.
Because when we talk about things like murder, especially 2nd degree murder, intent matters.
The case was not about if he caused the death, it is about if he intended to cause death or if death was due to negligence on his part. If he caused the death and that deathw as neither due to negligence or intent then he wasnt guilty of the charges at hand.
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uspol, acab
@noelle What clause of the constitution do you feel obligates them to protect the citizens in their jurisdiction?
While I would say they have duty to protect the citizens in their jurisdiction based on their oath that is not something encoded in the constitution as far as I know.
Yes he would have been not guilty if he had acted that way.
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Jeffrey Phillips Freeman
Innovator & Entrepreneur in Machine Learning, Evolutionary Computing & Big Data. Avid SCUBA diver, Open-source developer, HAM radio operator, astrophotographer, and anything nerdy.
Born and raised in Philadelphia, PA, USA, currently living in Utrecht, Netherlands, USA, and Thailand. Was also living in Israel, but left.
Pronouns: Sir / Mister
(Above pronouns are not intended to mock, i will respect any persons pronouns and only wish pronouns to show respect be used with me as well. These are called neopronouns, see an example of the word "frog" used as a neopronoun here: http://tinyurl.com/44hhej89 )
A proud member of the Penobscot Native American tribe, as well as a Mayflower passenger descendant. I sometimes post about my genealogical history.
My stance on various issues:
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Welfare: Yes, no one should starve
UBI: No, use welfare
Racism: is real
Guns: Shall not be infringed
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Trump: Moron, evil
Biden: Senile, racist
Police: ACAB
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