🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@Phancypants

Ahh i think i see your failing.. you think the UFoI is about unifying everything together, about forcing people to federate... nothing could be farther fromt he truth. The reason the UFoI doesnt assign any penalty to instances outside the UFoI is precisely because I DONT want to force everyone to federate.

The UFoI is more about addressing the lies and gossip that are a dominating factor fueling decisions to defederate. By having due process as the UFoI's central principle it means anyone who decides to be part of the UFoI aggress defederation decisions ultimately will be explained on public record, have the evidence on display, and allow the other side to show their evidence..

The reason is simple, if someone chooses to defederate from you (meaning you get kicked from the UFoI) those reasons arent just whatever the offended person made up, those reasons are documents, and in plain view and includes evidence from both sides... so when people choose to block or defederate based on this decision it is done fully informed of the reasons.

People who dont want all the due process can just not joint he UFoI, but at least you still get the benefit of having that data for yourself to view if you wish.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

I think you are a fine person as well, and I appreciate you.. I have no ill will towards you.. I have no problem with you not getting it, as I said if anything i welcome the criticism so I can use yoru feedback to improve.

If I seem defensive its because those same 33 people who suspended t1c are harassing me and everyone who touched UFoI, and it is disfusting what they are doing.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

Its not a sales pitch, its an idea, and a discussion.. call it a vision is you will...

sales pitch implies I want to sell you something, I dont... I want people who like the idea to join, people who dont to leave me alone and let me me try without harassing me and everyone i talk to in an effort to make it fail before it even began (not you doing this, but the others)

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

I am not faulting you for being skeptical, skeptical is good.. even as I try to build this i am skeptical.. I know there is a problem, I know people need to try to solve the problem... I am going to do my best to solve it and as the system matures ill try to adjust it to work as best I can.. if it fails, it fails and I leave.. but I do know there is a problem and people need to try to fix it.

Skeptical is good, as I said.. Ideally what I'd love to see is you join the discussions and use that skeptisim to help build the UFoI, suggest things that can make it work, criticize the thigns you dont, and make we will stand a better chance of getting a solution.... or dont, if you dont want to thats fine too.. but if you dont want to at least let the people who are trying to try, and when you see people get on 33 block lists just for trying to solve a problem that you call it out as a problem if nothign else.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

> I just don't get what you're trying to do

To this point its simple.. I'm trying to create a fediverse where t1c doesnt wind up on 33 block lists for doing absolutely nothing wrong other than wants to improve a system and make it better.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

Sorry I wasnt clear with my words, no I dont think youa re being violent or rude at all.. I use violently opposed in the colloquial usage of the term as meaning (extremely agressive and militant). I am also not refering to you but rather how the community treated them, 33 blocks for wanting to improve interinstance moderation with more ethics and transparency... you really dont see why thats harmful and dictates a problem? Do you really think their actions deserved 33 blocks?

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

One thing you have to remember, QOTO got its start, and grew as big as it did, because we started as LGBTQ refugees from across the fediverse... the LGBTQ community were abusing their own in much the same way T1C is being abused now, by being blocked and exiled for absurd things that they thought was in their best interest in terms of safety.... QOTO was literally a server of LGBTQ exiles in the early days... Now we are a more mixed group but that central core remains.

Everythign I have always done has been at their behest and based off of their feedback. UFoI included

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

Thats fine.. look if your ok with the fact that they got on 33 block lists simply for wanting a system with more transparency and evidence, if you think that is a system that works better than "all evidence will be public".. then by all means, stick with it.

The UFoI is **not** intending to be a dictator or forcing anyone into it. If you dont join the UFoI you will interact with the UFoI members just as you always did, on a case by case basis... IF you join and want a system where accusations are heard fairly, transparently, and both sides get to present their evidence, then join.

No one is forcing you to join, noting about the system hurts you (as the rules are designed to not effect instances outside of the UFoI)... so while I understand you may not want to join you really have to wonder why anyone would be so violently opposed to someone else joining, especially when its one of their own, a member of the LGBTQ community who clearly did nothing wrong....the way they were treated was wrong and IMO shows the very problem that needs correcting.. but again if thats a problem you think isnt a problem, then no one is stopping you from not joining...

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

Yes absolutely.. I always try to honor whatever pronouns you wish to use. That user has blocked me so I cant even see their profile to even know what pronouns they prefer. I simply misremembered, no disrespect intended.

I will occasionally slip up on pronouns, but it is never intentional. I appreciate the reminder.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

What about the post do you think needs rethinking? If i said something improper Id be happy to reconsider it, im just not sure what you mean by that.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

How is that any different than the fediblock.lgbt block list that got him blocked? Isnt that the exactt same thing .. a coalition talking about who can fed with who?

The difference here is that these coalitions simply adhere to transparency, evidence, and ethics in an attempt to make them more fair.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

It works for a lot of people.. until it doesnt...

Remember I met you on someones thread who literally was a LGBTQ member who got banned from 33 different servers and put on at least one block list simply for joining the UFoI, and was banned largly exclusively by the LGBTQ community (basing this off the name of the block list, Fediblock.lgbt)... Do you really think that describes something that is "working"?

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

Centralized? No its not centralized at all, it was built to be decentralized... instance admins still get to make their own moderation decisions, there is no punishment for not joining, coalitions are community run and self defined, and it isnt designed to need to be the only federation, it is open source with the intention of people forming sister federations..

It is very much a decentralized model.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Phancypants

Im not sure that characterization is correct... I am one of the oldest members of the fediverse, as is QOTO, both of us have been here 5 years.. its hardly that we have "just arrived"...

As for the fedi doing fine on its own... it hasnt.. it has been toxic and dividing for a long time, but until recently has been managable, recently the toxicity has went through the roof.

There is a reason the post about the UFoI on reddit has broken the all time record on that sub reddit with not just the most votes but with 90% up votes... people see the problem and its crippling.

@koyu@koyu.space @chris @trinsec

@Renshaw01 I always assumed he was fed regular food that was steralized.. steralizing food at least is easy, we do it with can food all the time

But yea, your points are my own, would love some answers...