🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@thor ike I said.. ive seen people who were in their 30s and either homeless their whole lives or living wit their mother who through conciously changing their actions managed to learn to be successful.. and to this day they are now independent and successful.

I've personally seen far too many people learn the skill, myself included, that its hard to deny.

@thor I would never argue that circumstances dont put some people at an advantage, they absolutely do.... but the point is, this is a type of success that can be learned, and choices made to get there... some just may have aquired the resources while others havent... Thats why im an open resoruces, cause no one can say they dont have access to that help because my help is open to everyone. :)

@saxis You and me wouldnt, because you and me have well established morals that arent so fragile...

People who are still developing however who are abused in very hurtful ways absolutely might, because younger people often dont have the same coping mechanisms for dealing with their emotions.

You cant evaluate everyone, by our own personal internal firewalls.

@thor Absolutely, and I do... like I said, I never claimed everyone should be able to go it alone and be successful with no help from anyone... that wouldnt be fair.

@TruthSandwich

Bigotry is caused by a whole bunch of shit... and yes trauma, is often very closely linked. Most bigots you willfind became that way either by abuse from their parents or from peers at some point early on in life when their views were still developing and fragile.This is evident from the way it runs in families and is clearly passed down and not simply a choice.

@thor I sure am a factor... just as maybe the pshyciatrist might be the factor some other people need.

I am not claiming you should be able to makeit on your own with no help form anyone.. if i thought that I wouldnt bother helping people.

@JoBlakely

I agree with you, as I stated in my original reply as well they are wrong, biased, etc... that was never in question. What I am trying to understand better isnt how it is biased, or unfair.. but rather what elements about it are explicit to race... I got that answer from another person who instead of attacking me and calling me a sealion actually bothered to make a sincere attempt at answering that, and they had a good answer: because it assumes a white cultural norm (long hair being unprofessional) that does not exist in other cultures. And thus is written to specifically enforce the rules of a white culture... it was a good answer... just a shame people like you were derailing an honest productive conversation.

@LilHulkQ

@thor not sure what your asking.

@thor No we arent talking about people who were successful and just happened to wind up homeless... We are talking about high school drop outs who have spent their whole lived homeless many of whom have never had a job or ever been responsible.

If it was simply a matter of someone having a unfortunate step id just give them money as they would have no lessons to learn.

@JoBlakely

> Yeah, i did ask because a) you do not identify as such until now nor bring any insight from your experience to this.

Incorrect, I post my heritage as a Native American clearly and prominately on my bio... At no point did I make any claim I was white or not a minority.. You **assumed** I was white and didnt bother to ask or check. That was an error on your part, but a simple "im sorry" would be fine, people make mistakes it just comes down to how you respond when you realize it. Now that you do....

> I would think if you had met with it in any real measure then your own experience with racism would have informed you as to how and why it gets applied unfairly.

So you didnt even bother to read my reply before calling me a sealion and blocking me?

I literally said in my very first reply I see quite clearly how and why it might be **applied** in a racist manner. Just like any rule of any kind can and will be applied unfairly... Here is the exact quote of what I said in my very first reply:

> Now i think its fair to be concerned it was **applied** raciall and only use to attack this poor kid and letting whites who violate get a pass.. and that should be illegal and persued in court if that happened.

@LilHulkQ

@TruthSandwich

No you dont have to already be a biggot... being abused and responding to that by hating the group that abused you is very human and visceral.. it can and will effect even non-bigots.

@thor I would be hesitant to tell you how much choice you have and how much you are a victim of your own mental state... I dont think any has a right to dictate that onto an individual... Afterall some things may be pathological and quite hard to work against and simply calling it a choice certainly belittles that struggle.

That said I would say that these "choices" are something that one can overcome their baser programming with the right disciplin, psychiatry, medication or whatever is needed for most people.. some might be able to do it by willpower and going alone, some may need medical help, some may not be able to do it all because whatever their mental state is it isnt "treatable" because of some underlying disease.... whatever the case may be i would never judge you or anyone to make it sound like "simply a choice". It is "simply a choice" like choosing to stop cigs is.... you can do it, but its not simple.

@thor

I disagree, I dont think everyone tries their best... I know myself at least (who is the only person i have access to my own mentality internally)... for me I most certainly do not always try my best.

@thatguyoverthere

@TruthSandwich I do agree, its not a good moral excuse for people who abandon the left for the right.

But whether it is a morally justified reason for switching sides or not, the sad truth is, that **is** the effect it will have all the same.

@thor

I disagree it is something you are just wired for. If that were true then every homeless person I tried to help would have never have been successful financially as a result of that help. They demonstrated, at least to me, that you dont need to be wired that way, you just need to learn to change certain behaviors. Admittedly thats not easy and its a bit like breaking an addiction. But its far from impossible.

@saxis If someone on the left sincerely going "hey i want to understand this opinion some in my community have so I can maybe adopt it and learn".... and everytime they do that they get called a racist or sealion for daring to even ask questions... you really cant see how that would push people to hate the group and ultimately seek other groups?

People are emotional, when a group literally abuses its well meaning members, the end result is seeing your "opposing" group grow and thrive.

@JoBlakely

> Have you even met racism?

Did you really just ask a Native American, a race that has almost been completely eliminated due to genocide, if I ever met racism.... seriously!?

> I was meaning that the ruling of the school that suspended the child regardless of the Crown Act was wrong.

Completely agree fromt he get go, the rule itself was wrong, and the choice of the school to enforce it also wrong. This would be true regardless of any racial component but doubly so if there was some racial bias at play as well (which is likely).

> You want to understand "why it disproportionately affects Blacks, when it should not." It's because there are NO good reasons outside of racism and having rules that can and will be arbitrarilarly & disproportionately enforced by racists at will. It's because of racism

That is perfectly fair, and I said exactly this early on and agree with you. The problem is by this logic **all** rules of any kind and of any nature are wrong because racists will ultimately be the ones applying it... My point is that if the rule itself isnt racist (and im not even convinced of that mind you) then fine, lets just admit that and focus on the problem of racists applying rules, which would seem to be the real problem... however if it is racist in **addition** to racists also applying it then we (and specifically me) should better understand why it is racist so we can better see and identify other rules that are racist.

This is supposed to be about learning and attacking people and calling them sealions when someone makes a sincere attempt to understand another POV and consider it as one they may want to adopt... that hurts everyone on the side of good here, everyone.

@LilHulkQ

@thor

No problems there at all. I wasnt trying to give you a hard time for your personal choices.

Just trying to point out that these small repeated choices in the present do really have an effect on long term financial success... that said as you point out that may be a tradeoff that is worth it to you, and that is fine.

@thor

Thats perfectly fine.. there is nothing wrong making the conscious choice to sacrafice a better future for a short-term immediate pleasure... I think its just important we dont frame that as a choice that has no effect on our future financial success when it does.