🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@Clementulus

So if I happened to find murder more beautiful, would that be ok too.. beauty, being subjective, is it a useful motive?

@mc just you, i have no trouble uploading... it may also be the file your trying?

@kj6dbe

> By “loose[sic] their shit” I take you mean “disagree with me”. Not too surprising, for a Mad Libs style position such as yours.

Nope I meant exactly what I said. Not surprising your struggling to understand what was said when your starting with an insult in your very first sentence I guess.

> What are the chances that you will be in the position of having to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term?

Are you seriously asking a perfect stranger what genitals they have? Disgusting, and none of your business

> If zero, what gives you the moral authority to impose limits on others, that would not affect yourself?

Even if it were 0 uit has effected me greatly. I was once a fetus and thus once at the whim of abortion laws. As someone (like everyone) who was once at risk of being effected by these laws I, and everyone, has a right to an opinion.

Woot. I half finished my fully from scratch aplit key keyboard wth oled... literally half finished so far :)

#DIY #DIYKeyboard #Keyboard #Keyboards

@trinsec That seems like a horrible cut off... killing a baby who would survive given time simply because it cant survive at this moment.. that seems like a horrible measure designed more to justify the murder than to actually look after the self determination and bodily autonomy of the baby

@trinsec its all we have. consciousness and other higher forms of thought are unknown to us and purely speculative. All we know is prior to 10 weeks there is no brain so no moral issue.. .after 10 weeks there is and the morality is no longer clear.. how underdeveloped does a brain have to be before murder becomes ok? Id rather stick with the science and go with the one line we can objectively measure without moral ambiguity

@trinsec 10 weeks is when neurons form and fire.

@ech Why do you take long lists of things that collectively prove a point, single out a single thing and think that if that one thing in the list is an exception it invalidates the whole list?

No, memories is one of many things I listed that having any combination of those has value, having absolutely none of those (or even a brain) does not... I do think you are trying to argue in good faith, but sometimes it doesnt feel like it.

@ech

Right, not having a brain at all, and being able to grow one, is vastly different than having a brain, personality, memories, expiernces, and it is temporarily turned off.. not remotely comparable.. one exists and is in a domant state, one doesnt exist at all but may be able to be grown.

@jbschirtzinger

@ech

The reason its not useful is that their brain may only be temporarily not functioning. It both stands a chance of recovering, and retaining previous expiernce.. A person without a brain is never waking up in their current state, and if they manage to grow a brain only once the brain is grown can it have any sort of thought or sensse of self or anything that makes a person a person in any meaningful sense (even if its a glimmer of it)

@jbschirtzinger

@ech

I listed three properties, not sure why your focusing on that one (other than its the easier one to attack).. .the point is, if youa rent capable of thought, awareness, suffering, emotions, if you dont have a brain your safe to kill... If you do there is some point its not ok and that point is unknown and cant be easier defined.

So the approach is simple, pick a timeline that garuntees everyone gets a fair shake

@realcaseyrollins

@ech

Which is the point. My core argument is not dependent on defining the moment consciousness exists. It is only dependent on defining when consciousness absolutely doesnt exist (on the obvious fact that when you dont have a brain yet you cant be conscious). The idea being you cant have any of those properties prior to you developing neurons, ergo abortion prior to 10 weeks is garunteed to be morally safe regardless of the ambiguity as to when any of those properties kick in.

@realcaseyrollins

@ech

Since we are talking about if killing is ethical if something doesnt have a brain im not sure your analogy is useful here.

@jbschirtzinger

@TammyGentzel

In short: because bodily autonomy is sacred. Your bodily autonomy ends where the bodily autonomy of another being capable of thought (has neurons) begins.. particularly if that other being is in that position (of being dependent on you) due to your own actions (sex).

inb4: in cases of rape in my scenario the mother still has the option to abort in the 10 week window. So she is not denied the option.

@TammyGentzel

Its not, thats why 10 weeks is picked.. both the mother and fetus have their rights protected. Mother can still have an abortion, child is protected.

The reason both are equally important is because once the fetus has brain cells and is capable of thought on any level (around 10 weeks) there is now at a minimum an ethical gray area, and at worst an ethical violation.

This setup ensures all ethical concerns are addressed.