🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@realcaseyrollins

Im geneerally against foreign interference. But in this case it seems justified. Especially considering foreign interference is the **only** reason israel was able to commit their genocide to begin with. If people didnt donate tons of military aide it would have actually been a fair fight and they likely would have lost.

@freepeoplesfreepress @kravietz

@Fu

What are you on about, 100% of europe is capitalistic. The last time a us president tried to say they weren't and that they were socialist multiple countries prime ministers all stood up and told him off and said they were capitalist even.

Never mind the fact that is **not** remotely how either side is defined, so its a moot point anyway.

@ech

> Blocked here on non-nazi Mastodon? If so, two theories:

It has not been an expiernce limited to mastodon in any way.

> I would think you run into very few righties.

Both here and in general I probably run into at least as many if more righties. The reason for it here is that the left is so quick to block people that myself not being an extreme lefty but a moderate has me blocked by the majority of the left and triggered pretty much the whole of the right. So I hear from the right quite often.

> For various historical reasons, culturally this place is dominated, politically, by the identarian left.

Overall I'd tend to agree there is somewhat more left than right on the fedi. But that means little when it comes to my view of it which is clearly tinted by my personality.

> One of my least favorite things about the id-left is they sorta don't tolerate dissent. In US politics it's probably the most significant anti-free-speech group. (speech is violence, etc, etc)

Agreed, which is why we have such extreme polarization, if you are even remotely moderate you will be attacked.

> Second: we righties here on Mastodon can't really afford to block anyone, we're getting blocked so much that if we did we'd have nothing in our feeds.

I mean there are plenty of right-wing instances, explicitly so.. The problem i find is that the right is complete garbage on here just like the left is.. so you probably dont want to hang out with that crowd as it constitutes some of the most obnoxious instances, most of the free speech instances where hatespeech is the norm.

I know I've seen Leprechaun 4: in space before... but strangly I cant remember anything about it... May be time for a rewatch.

@kravietz

Not sure why any of that matters.. its their land, they did nothing to deserve loosing it and were simply invaded. So until the occupying force leaves and especially when they are the ones overpowered and forced into ghettos,then there is absolutely no chance for the Israelis to be the good guys.

The whole "but we built up the area after we stole it and killed everyone" is a pretty damn poor excuse for why they should keep it.

@realcaseyrollins

@freepeoplesfreepress

What. How is an act on an occupying force an act of genocide, that makes no sense. It is an act of violence, but nothing they did remotely approached genocide (extermination of a whole people). They literally attacked people who were invading their land with no cause.

It is **not** even israels attacks in and of themselves that are genocide. Its the act of caralling people off their land into small ghettos, and turning off their water and power (in times of peace) with the intention of killing off the population as a whole that makes it genocide.

Targeted acts of war are horrific in their own right, but are not automatically genocide.

@realcaseyrollins @kravietz

@kravietz

In my scenario the israelis still own whatever they own and live there. They just are under the government that actually owns the land, palestine. As I said one of the conditions is anyone born ont he land is allowed to stay and given citizenship, this also assumes they retain whatever private land they own so long as they bought it fairly from the palestinian that owned it.

Obviously any infrastructure that exists through theft does not make sense to be allowed to keep.

@realcaseyrollins

@kravietz

Your response makes absolutely no sense.. If you dissolve the state and leave there is no state to have a war WITH... so no the war didnt continue for 80 years because of ideas like this, that makes no sense.

@realcaseyrollins

@kravietz

I would issue a public apology for invading a country that wasnt mine and occupying it for 80 years and commiting genocide, war crimes and terrorism. I would also state that palestine has done the same and neither of us are right. I would then offer a complete withdrawl of Israel from the region, a dissolution of the state under the condition that 1) all hostages are returned 2) all israelis are allowed an appropriate amount of time to leave the country and 3) any israelis that decide to stay who were born on the land be granted citizenship in Palestine and an equal vote.

Once palestine agrees and the hostages released I would dissolve the state and leave.

Now in all reality neither me nor anyone has complete control to decide the situation. So in any practical sense that will never happen, nor am I expecting it to. But youa sked what I would do if i had control and that would be it.

@realcaseyrollins

@realcaseyrollins

At this point its not relevant that the Israelis are the worse... they both commit war crimes and terrorism... Debating what murderer and torturer is the nicer one has little interest to me.

But if you insist then yea, the one who started the fight,a nd did so with a mass genocide is very clearly the worse of the two, regardless of what the other side did after being occupied.

If i break into someones house and chain the whole family up in the bathroom and punch them in the face every day, and they respond by kicking me in the balls when they get the chance, I'm still the worse one, I cant be praised for "taking the high oad and not kicking them in the balls" when im the one who came in, took over their home, and locked them into a small bathroom. It doesnt make kicking me in the balls right, but it does clearly make me the wrong one as the theif and initial abuser.

@kravietz

@realcaseyrollins

Absolutely, as the invaders and occupiers the Israel side is significantly worse morally.

@kravietz

@admitsWrongIfProven huh? who said you need an answer now.. if anything the opposite, the fact that you presented it without having through through it is more the concern than not having an answer.

@admitsWrongIfProven

its not what "you do" its what all humans do and have to fight against... most people go in with their mind made up whether they know it or not... you and I are no different.

@kravietz

There is no excuse for this and no one should be praising hamas.

Just as there was no excuse when the IDF used children of a similar age as human shields and got called to international court on war crimes for it (And refused to show)..

In the end anyone taking **either** side as the good guy is morally corrupt. The hammas are evil, the IDF is evil, full stop.

@admitsWrongIfProven But you drew a conclusion despite admittidly having not given it much thought... I hope you see the problem in that.

But yes you should think it over and come to a clarity of thought on it and hopefully be willing to change your mind as you do (if it is warranted)

I always find it idiotic when people argue "Democrats are right wing by european standards"... lol there is no relative standard for center, it is an absolute... what they should say is "democrats are farther right compared to the average in europe". But to suggests they are right of center has little basis in reality. Their policies may not be as extreme left as politicians in europe, but they very clearly are left of neutral/center

@admitsWrongIfProven

Perhaps you cant think of one because your assertion was wrong? If we cant articulate a stance more often than not its because your stance was not founded on logic or reality.. in the case where its just an inability to express it,then its worth investing the time to try and come back when you can. Because if you cant explain it you should probably chance it.

@kmic

As the saying goes... be open-minded, but not so open-minded your brains fall out.

@admitsWrongIfProven Sounds like your associating the left with "It must be something good"... Nothign about left vs right has anything to do with dictatorship (thats up and down). So a left-wing dictatorship is still left wing, just like a right wing dictatorship is still right wing.