🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@lispi314

> A few days of work-related sleep-deprivation (crunch time?) can very easily lead to death. Doing the same amount of work over the span of a week or two usually won't.

Who said anything about being allowed to work an employee so hard they cant sleep or need to cut their sleep short... no one in this thread... again why are you bringing up things no one is even discussing? To what end?

> I'm disagreeing with the implication that there's anything approaching equality in the power dynamics involved. What reprocity there is doesn't reach that far.

I pointed out the pay worked both ways, you work extra days you dont get extra pay, you dont work a day you dont get less pay. That is a correct statement, full stop. Why your going off on matters of equality int he power dynamic makes no sense, I get your trying to make that point, but that point is not even being discussed in the thread, so what makes you feel that is in any way relevant to what I said?

> Your position seems to rely on what, to me, is a fairly absurd expectation one can find work that is non-straining, pleasant and not under abusive conditions.

Certainly describes most job I ever worked, it also describes about 15 positions I'm hiring for right now, at least to most people. Me and my team are having a blast, I feel bad though that you've never found that, truly.

> In quite a few places, that would be a few hours. That adds up, especially with commute.

As you pointed out, spread out is not the same as all at once. an hour extra here and there does not add up to sleep deprivation and failing organs, especially when its offset with paid vacations.

@scott_guertin @georgetakei

@lispi314

True but irrelevant. No one is suggesting a person do 40 hours worth of work in 5 minutes. I'd also be very curious to hear how that would even be possible.

Kinda obsurd we went from "yea a salary worker might occasionally need to do work outside of 9-5" to "oh my god is he working constantly and going to die from lack of sleep and his organs will shut down!"... lets stop being absurd.

@scott_guertin @georgetakei

@lispi314

> The vast majority of people would a lot more hard-pressed to quit their job on a whim without ending-up with significant problems than their employer would be in laying them off. The power relationship is *very* strongly skewed here.

So? I am not even sure what your disagreeing with or how you think that is relevant to any points I made.

> As for the earlier statement I made, it is true both for chronic work-acquired injuries and for accumulated organ-damage from stress. The perceived relaxation doesn't indicate rest remotely approaching that sufficient to compensate.

That makes a lot of assumptions such as the idea that work equates to stress and damage. True for some, not for others, again pick a job that offers you the right balance for you. I myself find work fun, I would and do do it for free, the fact people are willing to pay me a bunch of money to do it is simply a bonus.

> The heart itself cannot cope with all that much sleep deprivation and stress in a short period (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi). Unsustainable high-effort isn't sustainable, that's simply not how human bodies work.

No one is suggesting answering a call or two after hours or occasionally working a little later is the same as sleep deprivation or even a stressor, particularly when it is offset with relaxing vacations you get paid to take.

@scott_guertin @georgetakei

@lispi314

> Hardly, not all moments in one's life are equal and the strain on one's body from accumulated overtime and stress is greater than the relief of a similar amount of time of rest.

If that is true for **you** then dont take a salaried position, and make sure to take a job that doesnt involve overtime. For many of us the opposit eis true. Working overtime for extended periods and then have longer periods of time off to compensate is FAR more relaxing than working every day on a 9-5.

You do you, but dont act like **financially** speaking it doesnt work both ways.

> So an equivalent time exchange... isn't an equivalent exchange in bodily damages. And the money is far from enough to compensate. (Nevermind that for many damaged organs one quite simply cannot buy a replacement for any amount of money.)

Then work hourly and not salary if you feel that way.

> More to the point, there is no (reasonable) expectation of loyalty from an employer (layoffs purely for investment figures are commonplace), so why should any of the employees provide such a thing to the employer?

Who said anything about loyalty. The equivelant of not being able to layoff people would be saying employees cant quit. Loyalty is not expected from eithe rside.

@scott_guertin @georgetakei

@lispi314

They literally get that back in equal measure. While a salaried empl,oyee doesnt have fixed hours or an hourly rate, and may be expected to work extra hours for free, they also get paid time off. When they take a day or even a whole month off they still get their full pay. It works both ways.

@scott_guertin @georgetakei

@pies

Sakary employees do **not** get overtime pay, by definition a salary employee doesnt even have an hourly rate they have a yearly rate. Overtime is only an idea that applies to hourly employees.

@scott_guertin @georgetakei

@scott_guertin

By definition salary means you dont have fixed hours, yu work when your needed, including after hours. You dont get extra pay. The bargain is the reverse is true, when you dont work a day you still get paid.

@georgetakei

@scott_guertin

Ahh then yes it is saying that. And since a salaried employee person is expected to have commitment outside of standard hours, how do you know their current level of commitment is appropriate to that?

@georgetakei

@scott_guertin

Oh you meant greater than the commitment they currently have, or a greater commitment than they do to their personal life?

@georgetakei

@scott_guertin

Did you, no where in that quote image does it say anything about "greater commitment"

@georgetakei

@scott_guertin

No one said anything about "greater commitment". Only that a salaried worker's job isnt a 9-5 job. They are expected to work longer hours when needed, sometimes do work after hours, and in exchange they get paid when they take off like vacations.

@georgetakei

@scott_guertin

Salaried employees are expected to make a fix amount no matter how much they are paid. That is the bargain.

@georgetakei

@AmpBenzScientist Just how keto friendly we talking? I get very few carbs to spare.

@AmpBenzScientist All of the major ones, half of the obscure ones... honestly its too many to name.

@AmpBenzScientist

Inconceivable!

You keep a' using that word. I do not think it a' means, what you think it a' means!

@MattHatton

I sat here for a good long time trying to think up a way someone might possibly derive enjoyment from microsoft word. I can only come up with one, and that is the invention of the deranged clippy memes.

I am 25 minutes into this movie and I regret this choice so very much.

@AncientGood

> ok, let's agree on the fact that police needs real reform and have another police, so they could investigate each other's misbehavior and not covering every situation like "we investigated ourselves and concluded that we did nothing wrong". Police should be held to way higher standards than regular people, and corruption/unlawful behavior should result at least triple punishment

while the last part of triple punishment deserves some debate (not because i disagree but just because its not nuanced enough). The rest I agree with in principle.

I would argue polie should just not have qualified immunity anymore, and in exchange for that we pay them as much as we need to to hire them to put their lives at risk. I am ok paying them MORE if they are actually held accountable.

> but I disagree with this, that not what happened, nobody chocked Floyd, quite the opposite, there is footage that they tried to help him before even ambulance arrived, the famous viral video when cop was kneeling on the neck - it's just wrong perspective of this particular video, body cam showed that cop was holding his knee on shoulder blade which is not a chocking hazard, but they decided to build wrong narrative and didn't bring this footage

Even if we take away the term choking from the equation to give you the benefit of the doubt there.. doesnt matter. After the moment he was clearly lifeless and people said he was looked dead on camera begging them to help him. from that moment they still "pinned him down" for 9 more minute while he lay there dead/lifeless/unconscious. The fact that after 9 minutes of him being dead they finally decided to "help" him is too little too late.