🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@johnabs

Well yes and no.. I do not know if we have free will actually. But I would say that even if it seems similar to what we assume is our own free will (and for this discussion im ok assuming we have it), that doesnt mean they have free will.. We can learn and adapt, assuming that is necesary for free will then despite any other similarities we have and they dont.

With that said honestly I think we need to take a step back from this debate because we have an underlying axiomatic problem.. you are using reason and its all well and good, but we havent even agreed on a definition of what is free will to begin with, let alone a way to test for it.

Is a simple modern day AI free will (most would say no).. would a more advanced form that is simply more complex but generally of the same nature as todays AI be free will? If not what special quality is it lacking....

And before we can answer any of that what is free will at all. If your decisions are pre-determined can it be seen as free will if you can never and will never execute anything but the already predetermined decision you will make?

@General

@realcaseyrollins No they are worth more because unlike candy canes they are in mint condition.

@alex

so the important thing to remember here about the protections about using multiple IPs and all that is the idea of subnets.

When you own a static IP, such as from verison you arent just given an IP and thats the end of it on some massive network.. You are given a subnet of public IPs, that is, you are given one or more IP addresses and the subnet which determines them.

A router has the local side NIC and the public side NIC. Lets assume this router is controlled by verizon (you can add more routers in between and run your own but your still behind one from verizon).

The local NIC of the router is on the same subnet as your own public static IP. What this means is that if you own 2 ip addresses your subnet mast would be 255.255.255.252 another way you could express that is 1.2.3.4/30.

This is important because the subnet mask tells the router what is yours and what is not yours, but it also tells every computer on the network automatically. No one needs to "tell" the router anything nor does a box with on of your ip addresses need to "tell" the other ip address it is local.

So if you tried to be mischievous and setup some local box with a static IP that you dont own it will inherently be out of the network mask of both the router and your other two computers. the router would effectively treat it like it isnt even part of the network its on.

As an added aside if you send a package to an ip from your computer your computer itself already knows if this needs to go to the router and out to the wider internet or if its local to the local subnet due to your subnet mask.. the internal NIC of the router simply ignores any local traffic that is from one ip to another in the same subnet anyway and the computer sending it wont attempt to do anything special.

But when you try to send a packet to a machine that isnt on your local subnet your local machine as well as the router is aware of that. Your local machine checks the gateway IP in that case (the ip of the router) and sends the packet there and asks it to forward it, since the destination isnt in the subnet the router will forward it to the correct destination. So even if you wanted to be naughty and setup a local static ip that wasn't one you owned, assuming you setup the subnet masks right the ip would still get to the correct destination.

Now the gateway IP i mentioned **is** set on your local computer along with your IP and netmask.. So in reality it isnt that you tell the router what IP your using with static IPs but the other way around, you tell your computer what IP the router is using. With DHCP the gateway IP is sent as a piece of data along side your assigned IP with the DHCP packet as well.

Another point to prove this out is that even though your used to the DHCP server existing on the router in fact it doesn't have to and even with the DHCP the router itself need not know anything about DHCP. It is perfectly fine to have your DHCP server running on an arbitrary computer on your network completely separate from, and not communicating with, your router. In fact in this setup it is quite common that the router gets its own IP from the DHCP server, not the other way around. At least the local side NIC anyway.

@caskd

@r000t

Damn straight

@alex @grips @realcaseyrollins @crisishorror @modfaggotry @p @Terry @underwater @thatfightnerd @cowanon @1iceloops123

@johnabs

but does the act of weighing and reasoning prove free will, even if it seems similar to our own..

Consider for a second that the brain is just a very complex algorithm.. if i have an algorithm that weights options, reasons about those options, and then picks the one with the heighst weight, is that free will? The computer program will always choose the same result every time, since, like a person, the algorithm can not adapt or change or consider past events. So is an algorithm that goes through multiple steps to determine an output, when that output is consistently the same, exhibiting freewill for "weighting options" and "reasoning"... I'd argue it is not, neither would this hypothetical human (presuming that were truly the case, in reality they can acquire new skill memory so it isnt exactly the same).

@General

@realcaseyrollins

And yea you can follow hashtags on QOTO in a few different ways, and you can also on mastodon just without some of the options we added in QOTO, but still very doable.

@lnxw37a2

@realcaseyrollins

We pulled some stuff from misskey into QOTO... its worth considering I agree.

@lnxw37a2

@johnabs

If your actions are predetermined are they truly free actions though? I mean clearly they THINK they have free will. but if all they truly have the power to do is repeat the same thing over and over again is it really free will or just the illusion of it?

@General

@ccc Ok so lets take that scenario.

While it may seem fair on the surface lets realize how this will actually play out:

People who are scared of HIV, mostly homophobes but not all, are likely to take "I dont wish to answer that" as being functionally equivalent to "yes I have HIV".

The end result is that those with HIV have no real protection, they will be treated as if they have HIV whether they say yes or refuse to answer. So they will loose their livlihood and patients all the same.

While it may seem or even sound fair on the surface, in practice it is really no different than forcing them to divulge their medical history and if they refuse to effectively get fired or loose their job

@stux As long as we arent talking about the COVID vaccine (which scientists are legitimately cautioning people against) I approve of this message.

@stux

I'm gonna tell my kids this was rickrolling

https://youtu.be/4ctK1aoWuqY?t=19

@calculsoberic@mstdn.social

@stux

There ya go, a rick emoji :)

@calculsoberic@mstdn.social

@crisishorror

I shall sing you the song of your people:

https://youtu.be/fT7pFSfVZBI

@grips @realcaseyrollins @Terry @modfaggotry @p @underwater @alex @thatfightnerd @r000t @cowanon @1iceloops123

@crisishorror

No worries, no hard feelings. agreed

@grips @realcaseyrollins @Terry @modfaggotry @p @underwater @alex @thatfightnerd @r000t @cowanon @1iceloops123

@crisishorror

I entierly agree, if it were up to me I'd 3d print a dozen guns and put them in a box on my doorstep with a sign that says "free guns"

@grips @realcaseyrollins @Terry @modfaggotry @p @underwater @alex @thatfightnerd @r000t @cowanon @1iceloops123

@alex

No I am not, never even suggested as much.

@grips @realcaseyrollins @crisishorror @modfaggotry @p @Terry @underwater @thatfightnerd @r000t @cowanon @1iceloops123