🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@skobkin

Yes and that should be encompassed in the getting started part... that said i think getting started needs a rewrite.

@ufoi

@skobkin

So get rid of apply? I dunno I'd get rid of the getting started first, the apply seems the most important part.

Im open to seeing what otehrs think though.

@ufoi

@skobkin

As buttons? So three buttons? Or is the fact that we added it to the header ok?

@ufoi

@34a3cff1fb40 I have no idea where they relocated or even if they relocated.

@LeneBe

I dont think anyone thinks COIVID is over really. They just think the time for masks are over and we cant live like that forever. The risks of COVID are more acceptable then a life in hazmat every time we go outside... I think this was inevitable and went on longer than one might otherwise have thought.

@erictopol

@sam@masto.dotsod.com @ufoi

I need to check, I think one of our instances was 50K users... across 15 members we have about 200K users

@carcosa

It is a democratic system. If you feel that QOTO is a bad-actor, then all you have to do is report us, then the other instances in the UFoI will vote ont he evidence. If you are correct QOTO gets kicked out.

But keep in mind joepie91 was already shown to be taking things out of context, manipulating, and lieing about the facts.

As you can see below our CSAM policy is very explicit and we DO block CSAM despite the claims in your link. This was our policy from **before** the person lied about it, so he has no excuse.

Your link, if anything, shows the need for UFoI, so actors liek Joepie whoa re going around lieing, knowing their lieing, have some accountability. No one is expecting QOTO to get a free pass, the assumption is only that there must be due process so the evidence is prevented rather than exactly what you are doing, having misinformation spread without being challenged.

@louis

@otfrom

first off its democratic, not run by anyone.. Since we have strict rules if you wish to report me then the evidence will come to light and I can be booted like anyone else.

Also see the huge discussion about QOTO int he talk page, you will notice counter evidence was presented to show the evidence for the QOTO ban was a lie. they refused to post the counter evidence and clearly lied... so to use that as "evidence" if anything proves the need for UFoI, specifically due process and evidence based decisions, rather than this list ran by a single dictator who suppresses evidence and goes out of her way to lie... yea this is trash.

@louis

@dump_stack As an american I can tell you Americans are over the top melodramatic... there **are** a lot of legit issues, but its not nearly as bad as most people say and the worst parts are not usually the things you hear about.

The most grim aspect of the USA is needing to deal with the melodramatic, always offended, americans that have infested the place.

@yisraeldov

That hasnt changed... most instances who join the UFoI will already have rules that are compatible with the ethics.. no one tells them how to moderate, they just continue doing what they are doing.

The protection is that **if** someone accuses your instance of being a bad-actor instead of gossip and random block lists blocking you you will have a chance to defend yourself and show you are, in fact, a good actor... you also have the option not to defend yourself and simply leave, in which case the case is dropped.

Moreover instances are free to moderate themselves by whatever additional rules they want anyway.

I strongly disagree with the "premature optimization" aspect, there is a **huge** issue on the fediverse that needs a solution, one many instances have been the victim of countless times. We are trying to address that, it is just ordinary optimization, a problem was identified, we are trying to fix it.

@louis

@yisraeldov

Again feel free to suggest a better wording if you want, these rules are up for debate and modification so just jump in and suggest better wording

@louis

@yisraeldov

> Glad that you replied. The circumventing bans is completely reasonable, but you already have that listed separately to the harassment.

Indeed we do, but while there is overlap this isnt the same.. harassment is when someone explicitly tells you to disengage and you continually engage them, or make calls to dogpile someone who has been left alone. In short if it is very clear that you were **explicitly** told contact is unwelcome, yet you intentionally and repeatidly engage the person anyway, this would be harassment.

> Mastodon has plenty of tools that we can use to block content that we don't want to see, so having a policy against harassment, is kind of pointless.

How do block calls to dogpile, you cant, you would have to block each person one by one and only **after** you are harassed. Keep in mind the rules are only against **explicit** calls to dogpile

> As a moderator I've seen way too many times people claim harassment as a way to just shut down an opinion they don't like.

You are right, this is a concern for me also. This is why harassment is very explicitly defined and not just someone being annoyed you contacted them. That said, please, if you think there is better wording just go make a merge request, everything is up for debate.

@louis

@RogerBW

Yes B can either drop out or they can silence the server but remain federated, up to them.

There is no penalty for joining and leaving though, so worst case scenario you are back where you started, no harm done.

Keep in mind the UFoI is not meant to include the whole fediverse. We picked rules that would allow the vast majority of instances join, those that want to be part of a larger community. Other instances are welcome not to join, there is no "penalty" for not joining.

Long story short, no harm in joining up until you want to defederate, then just leave if it ever comes to that.

@louis

@dekkzz76

Waiting a while is certainly an option, though keep in mind there are a few advantages to joining early..

1) there is no obligation, any intance can leave at any time without notice, so nor eal downside to joining

2) Right now application is simple and quick since we dont have the full voting architecture up yet.. after about a week it will take weeks to get in and be a bit of a process and require a bit of effort

3) The order of instances on the public list is based on the order they join. So the earlier you join the more users you will get through our directory

4) namespaces (like the link to individual users profiles) are first come first server, so all the short or cool profile names might be taken later.

Other than these points though there is nothing stopping you from applying at a later point.

@louis