🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@TruthSandwich

Of **course** voters and non voters dont have the same views. We can infer from the fact that they didnt vote that they will by far have the largest (and almost exclusive) number of voters who side with none of the candidates.

In fact its so obvious that the bulk of people who support neither candidate will be non-voters it amazes me this is even suggested that non-voters would have the same breakdown.

@ech

@TruthSandwich

No your statement now changed... among the subset of white people who voted, yes, a majority voted fascist... that is **not** the same as saying a majority of white people are fascist.

@ech

@TruthSandwich

Whether that is true or not is not the point of what I said.

@ech

@TruthSandwich

Agreed, Trump being fascist trash is obvious, and I agree with what Obama said.. I am only said what Obama thinks or says is not a very good argument, the actual actions of Trump are good arguments.

@ech

@TruthSandwich

Fact: a majority of whites did not vote for Trump (they either voted for someone else or not at all)... full stop.

@ech

@TruthSandwich

As I said, whether the usage of terms are technically accurate or not is certainly a fair debate... I am just saying the pattern of usage I typically see from people, and as I pointed out most people using these terms dont fully understand their technical meaning.

@ech

@TruthSandwich

I agree completely that Trump is a fascist. that said what Obama says is a very weak argument in that regard (other arguments are more valid and would make the case well IMO)

@ech

@TruthSandwich

You just moved the goal post. **You** made the assertion that a majority of whites voted for Trump, ergo they are majority fascist. But in fact a majority of the white population did not vote for Trump, ergo your assertion doesnt hold up. Now if you still want to assert a majority of whites are fascist then its you who needs to bring the evidence.

@ech

@ech

Its not just the lawsuits, to this day he still claims the elections were rigged when he knows full well they werent. Lawsuits at least have fairness to them where an objective third party can investigate, I have no problem with that. The issue is in how he acted and spoke, and continues to, about anon-existant election fraud.

@TruthSandwich

@ech

BTW if we really want to get into fascism from trump the parade is a pretty minor example... Not accepting the results of an election that he clearly lost and his fraud claims were very obviously invalid (yet he still pushed them) is very clearly fascist in nature. It is also quite damning

@TruthSandwich

@ech

I think the problem is you are treating fascism as an all or nothing state (same way people treat capitalism)... thats just not how it works... Trump has elements of fascism, whether those are bad enough to be a concern is always the crux of the problem.

Is france fascist for having a military parade on bastille day... well it was definately a fascist move, and tipped the scale ever more slightly towards fascism.. but a country/person is not a state of fascism vs not fascism.. its always a sliding scale.

@TruthSandwich

@ech

I think Truth has a very specific bubble he views reality through.. most people do in fact.

@TruthSandwich

@TruthSandwich

Nah, thats just your bubble.. the overwhelming majority of people I talk to use the term liberal to mean classically liberal, and use some other term for DNC type liberalism (either neoliberal or progressive depending who you talk to)... now keep in mind most people arent that aware of the technical usage of terms either, so its a bit of a mess int hat regard.

@ech

@ech

There are certainly some pretty hallmark fascist things he has done.. military parades are sterotypical fascism for examples... I think the issue is the other way around, fascism can be pretty bad, and while i dont support it, there are milder forms of fascism (like military parades).

Now I am pretty sure I can say Trump leads more towards the fascism side of the spectrum.. but whether he is "mildly" fascist or extremely fascist leaves some room for debate.

@TruthSandwich

@TruthSandwich

#3 is only correct when you ignore the huge percentage of people who dont vote at all... once you factor that in a majority of whites did **not** vote and support Trump.

@ech

@ech

Even liberal is a messy term... classiclly liberal (as in personal freedoms).. no the DNC is very anti-liberal in that sense... liberal in the sense of focusing on social programs, yea in that form of the word liberal they do have that tendency (and is the reason i myself lean left)... sadly they are generally fairly self-destructive in how they execute that to the point of doing more harm than good on execution.

@TruthSandwich

@TruthSandwich

I dont expect any amount of logic to convince you... but generally (this is from wikipedia) the properties of fascism are:

dictatorial leader
centralized autocracy
militarism
forcible suppression of opposition

I see the left expressing these things in spades, at least from the far-left which dominates the left scene (I myself am centrist-left and wouldnt include myself in this, or any of the small-minority centrist-lefts)

dictorial leader is clear, the DNC left routinely expresses the idea that any choice other than them is unacceptable, and supporting even third-party candidates is usually meat with aggressive abuse from many on the left.

centralized autocracy - this goes hand in hand with the last point

militarism - Absolutely, both sides have done little to nothing to reduce our overwhelming waste on military funding.

forcible suppress of opposition - this one is the most evident for me. We have seen it in the violent riots at universities where right-wing people intend to speak to the point of damaging equipment or threatening lives all to suppress opposition. Also botht he right and the left actively suppress third-parties.

@ech

@TruthSandwich

Calling yourself a thing doesnt make you that thing, likewise saying your not a thing doesnt make you not that thing... The left behave as fascists behave, ergo they are fascist regardless of what they claim they are.

@ech

@ech

I dont think people who support trump support him **because** he is fascist. But I do think that if you voted for trump you voted for a person who clearly has fascist tendencies...

Now that said I would say the same about voting democrat, equally so if you vote democrat you are voting for fascism, just of a different flavor.

Supporting either party right now is a support for fascism in my eyes.

@TruthSandwich