🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@ceoln

> Thinking independently and making good decisions are not necessarily correlated! People can independently come to extremely bad conclusions.

They sure can. Which is why i said **only** thinking independently while making bad choices is bad.

That isnt an argument against the need for independent though. Just means other qualities are needed to make a politician a good one.

> I’m just saying that the quality of the decisions is far more important than whether they are arrived at independently.

Thats not an argument against the need for independent thought. All your arguing for is that you want both qualities, independent thoght AND good decisions... and yes this is true.

I never said independent thought is the most important quality to have.. others may be more important... but it is still one of the list of important qualities to have, and thus desirable

> Certainly if the group is going in a bad direction, then independence is good. But it’s good because it increases the odds of getting to a good place, not because of some inherent virtue.

Sure i dont care about any inherent virtue either... thing is, its also good when the group is headed in a good direction. Why?because it is a safeguard against the future when/if the group makes bad decisions.

There are quite a few other secondary reasons its important too.. the main one being that group think prevents ideas from being raised and discussed in opposition as it drives polarity.

@georgetakei

@lowqualityfacts

Actually Emily Clarke started it to get more acting work.. They started as "Chuck nor Riz" jokes in an attempt to discredit Chick Cannon and Riz Rhamed and keep them out of the business, less competition. Over time they turned into Chuck Norris jokes instead.

@darnell

I just did some checking in the scientific journals.

Of people who have bipolar and need treatment, 40% of them refuse to take their meds despite having access.

It would seem your personal view of having many friends with bipolar who all take their meds very much inaccurate. It would seem a very large portion of the general bipolar population refuse medication.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5975358/#:~:text=Among%20populations%20with%20bipolar%20disorder,associated%20with%20poor%20illness%20outcomes.

@realcaseyrollins

@darnell

> I know people who are bi-polar & most take their medicine.

It is very individual. Bipolar is not a "you have it" or "you dont" .. there are types, sub types, and level of sevarity. A person with a very mild case will have a much easier time being treated and staying on it than someone with a much worse case.

It would be incorrect to assume just because many people with bopolar are treated and have success that that must be the case for Ye specifically.

Also keep in mind what you see is usually only the part them and their family let you... for many people with bipolar if they have a relapse and stop taking their meds (or dont) it is not uncommon for them to stay away from the public (usually with the help of their family) until they can get better. So you very well just may never see this side of them. Keep in mind Ye follows that pattern, he has been isolated from the world as a result of him not medicating. Only reason you know about it in this case is because he is famous, if it were an ordinary person you'd probably never know.

> I did encounter a violent one who in the past refused. Let's just say friends & his family were not going to put up with his 🐂💩 & gave him the option of taking his medication or suffer the consequences as an outcast.
> He wisely took his medicine.

Its great he had family who forced his meds on him... but this also just goes to show how people off their meds think they dont need them and will resist it and its only when their life is indanger (like living on the street) you can sometimes force them to take it.

But Ye has money, so this wont work on him. He doesnt depend on anyone so they cant force him to take his meds.

> Ye is an adult & is responsible for his actions.

I find it very harmful to those with mental health problems to spread this kind of harmful ideology (I know your a good person so im not saying this to attack you). I do hope you reconsider it.

The fact that he is an adult doesnt negate his mental disease or that he is a victim of it.

When you have a disease that dictates your entire personality and actions, then no he is not responsible for his actions. The fact that you had a friend that was forced to take a pill once when his life was at risk took it is hardly a good argument.

> He obviously can take care of himself.

I mean, that doesnt seem obvious to me. But even if it where not sure how being able to brush your teeth comb your hair and feed yourself changes the fact that your entire personality and decision making capability is at the whim of your disease.

@realcaseyrollins

@bananarama

Valid points... but if i blocked them i would have no one left to laugh at. What your seeing here is less stress and more entertainment for me.

@passenger @SocialistStan@mymastadon.link @BetaCuck4Lyfe

@kmic Just watch the movie in black and white, same thing :)

@LouisIngenthron Why would you say that?
Trying to understand your interpritation here. But 2/3 opposing Trump as their first choice among those who stuck with the GOP (what is meant by likely GOP voters) would suggests there are still a few moderates around no?

That said if they are center-right im not sure they even qualify as "likely GOP voters" and probably wouldnt be cited here. center-right sound more like swing voters.

@ferricoxide

I would tend to agree.

@georgetakei @pyranose

Humans are unbearable with their little imaginary obsession with "who is at fault"... fault is a construct with almost no relevance.. there is an infinite chain of events leading up to everything that happens and any one of them could have changed the course. All we do is obsess over the one that pisses us off the most like it is somehow special.

@icedquinn

Yea i poined that out earlier int he thread too.. like even if he did take his meds it still doesnt mean it isnt his bipolar and that he is properly treated.

To which he rebutted that his wife knows he isnt taking his meds.

I mean sure, but thats a consequence of the disease too...

So yea im 100% with ya there.

@darnell

> His ex-wife has repeatedly stated that Ye was unwilling to take his medicine. He is choosing to be irresponsible so he will not get sympathy from me for his words & actions.

Ok, and as pointed out not wanting to take your meds is a symptom of bipolar.. when their on meds they tend to be willing to stay on it. But once they relapse while on the meds the relapse makes them want to stop taking it, they do, and it continues.

You keep trying to say its his choice... once your in a bipolar episode **no** its no longer your choice to take the meds, it is the disease running your brain not you.

> He has an ability to rectify the situation but is choosing not to out of foolishness. So no, I will not be sympathetic towards his situation.

No, he doesnt. When you have bipolar and are relapsing your choices are NOT your own. This includes the fact that the disease convinces you that you dont need meds.

@realcaseyrollins

@danny

Oh absolutely... look at johnny vs amber...

The moment amber accused Johnny he lost **everything** every franchise dropped him no one would hire him.. even Pirates of the Carribean killed the franchise just to drop him from it... all on an accusation with no proof.

Now fastforward, trial over, he is found to be **clearly** innocent. Amber is found to have lied about every piece of evidence and caught red handed... johnny is found innocent, and Amber even found guilty of lying and forced to pay...

So where are we now... Amber hasnt been dropped from even a single franchise that I know of. Still getting work, still on magazine covers. Her life was barely effected....

Meanwhile johnny is getting work again but all the contracts he lost, hasnt been fixed at all.

@bonifartius

@bonifartius Pretty sure that is a false statement....

@katrinakatrinka

> It was just last year, but it was close to Christmas, so you may have missed it. It was so bad since Biden has always made a big deal about riding and liking the trains.

I am a COVID research scientist and was in Israel for 2 years doing research. So yea this sounds like I missed it cause i was out of town.

> Anti-monopoly laws don't seize companies. They break up companies. The companies are still owned by private entities.

Well more or less yes.. the company is seized, and they are compensated with either money or shares in the new company (which of course can be sold for the money).

Were you suggesting stealing the money from the investors completely and leaving them with nothing? Even if we seized large companies to replace it with a government owned equievelant, obviously we would have to pay the owners a fair market value to do so (which is how its always done).

I mean at that point your starting to go way past just the left and your starting to sound more like communism. Even when homes are seized fromt he poor (as mentioned) they are paid a "fair market value" (or at least it is supposed to be fair).

> I think there's a lot of talking past each other going on in this conversation because the US understanding of socialism is really inconsistent with how other countries use it.

My bio says I live in the Netherlands (its old i just spent 2 years in israel but i still have my Dutch home)... Why are you assuming our misunderstanding is because of the US? For the record I have spent the majority of my life living around the world, usually move to a new country every few months or years (though NL is a permanent fixture for me). I have lived in most european countries, worked, got health care, all the stuff.

For the record though many europeans sometimes use socialism wrong too.. for example (as has been stated by multiple prime ministers) there are no socialist countries in europe only social-welfare capitalist countries. Which is accurate.

> For example, a lot of policies Nixon and Regan passed would be considered by current GOP as leftist.

Absolutely.. Being ont he left does **not** mean every single one of your policies needs to be left leaning. If the majority are on the left, then you lean left.

Nixon and Regand certainly had more policies on the left than most modern day republicans. But the bulk of their policies were still right. So it would be completely accurate to say Nixon and Regan where on the right, but closer to the center, than many of those in the GOP today.

More importantly, to solidify this, those int he GOP may see some of his policies as left, but most (at least the ones with more than 2 brain cells) woul be educated enough to still identify the fact that these people were right of center.

> The best way to debate is first to agree on definitions. Then discuss the subjects.

I tend to agree with that. As of the moment I havent seen any definitions we likely disagree on. We seem to agree, so far, on the definition of socialism at least (well i dont know yours, but we agree the american view of it is often wrong)

@pyranose @georgetakei

@danny

I tend to agree. We could argue the same, if the accuser isnt made public then how can people with evidence related to the crime, about the accuser, ever come to light either.

The transparency absolutely should go both ways.

I'd argue that hiding their identities makes sense if there is a special circumstance where they would be at particular risk... but that should be the exception and should that be the case I'd agree the entire case should be sealed including the name of the accused.

Also, making the accuser anonymous, not sure how that would even work from a practical standpoint.

@bonifartius

@bonifartius

I have never heard him say or have an opinion that would be on the right (by any measure) and quite a few on the left.

Interviewing tucker carlson doesnt tell me anything about if he is right or left.... disagreeing/agreeing with him might.

And yea it is nuts.. like i wouldnt be too surprised if people boycotted him.. but to have the UK parliment itself actively pull something like this based on rumor alone... Im astonished.