🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@strawd I tend to agree the language around pathology should be addressed... but even if we do that the truth is we still will need to identify some mental patterns as unhealthy and leading to harm, and others that arnt... The point here is the non-autists have a mental pattern that results in harm to their community. Autists are the ones who generally are the rational non toxic ones whos mentality doesnt cause harm but is instead causing them to be victimized by the other group.

@ErikUden

No we dont....

I, like the vast majority of the "guns dont kill people crowd" are very very much pro free speech and against banning of books.

Im sure there are some pro gun people who arent... but to claim they represent the pro-gun rights community is not remotely accurate to reality.

@strawd

> I would say that pathologizing the way a minority of human brains work is the wrong way to go about it, so if that's what you mean by incorrectly diagnosed, then I agree.

That wasnt the point I was making, but is a tangential point I agree with.

> I do think it can be useful to explore how an individual's brain works, and whether they for instance tend to pay a lot more attention to rationality than they do to social norms. Or something along those lines. I'm far from any kind of expert in this area, but I'm learning.

I agree, the issue arrises when you see these two groups and assign one as diseased and the other as healthy... if we want to use those descriptors at all it should be reversed as it is the non-autists who generally create toxic unhealthy social environments.

@JonKramer

> I never made that argument.

You said:

> ...when the Rent is Too Damn High Party has even NYC... then their MIGHT be a left wing in this country

So yea you implied that the rent being too damn high, and it not being addressed the way you want it to be, is somehow an argument in this thread where you are arguing that no (or at least almost no) left wing candidates exist.

This was absurd.

@Free_Idealist @pyranose @georgetakei

@JonKramer

> Research what an executive order is, and how it works. This doesn’t mean he is a dictator, and I never said or implied he was.

I am very well aware of what an executive order is.

They are not legally binding, they are only commands by the president. While people who directly treat him as a boss are expected to follow it, they can not be used to pass laws, pass regulations, or dictate anything to any independent body (like the FDA, FCC, etc)... he can issue them, but they are at best suggestions.

It is also highly irresponsible and abusive to issue them beyond routine administrative issues, despite the fact that they have been abused this way recently.

Regardless as you point out, this doesnt change the equation, he isnt a dictator.

> I am talking the party, not individuals.

What does this even mean... The individuals who make up the party ARE the party.. unless you mean the party manifesto itself, which also does **not** state that abortion of dead fetuses must be illegal as a party stance.

> There are several million young black men in prison who will be happy to hear of this policy change.

Yes, sadly what they did was still illegal. Thankfully Obama pardoned a HUGE number of this group specifically for these reasons.

> Correct. The Dems are a right wing party. Individual members of the party can be far more liberal.

Nope, but good to hear you meant the dems and not the left and understand they arent the same.

> Is pro war a liberal policy?

Pro war is not a left or right wing principle, That exists on a different metric (authoritarianism, as does fascism)

> Increasing the police force?

Increasing the police force would be a left-wing policy stance because it is an attempt at addressing the public welfare by protected against crime... Of course the fact our police force is evil throws a wrench in that, but that isnt Obama's or Biden's choice to make them evil. But yea as a general principle investing in community security would be a left-wing principle, while pushing to make the police for less oppressive to the individual would be a right-wing principle.

> Border patrols?

This bring up an interesting point that wasnt addressed that is important. The GOP cares about individual freedom even if its contrary to community welfare, as I said, but to be more specific "individual freedom of american citizens"

So stronger borders would be a right-wing policy because it is an attempt to favor current citizens welfare by excluding foreigners to the USA where we would have to share our resources.

Soi yea border patrols is clearly a right wing policy since it is designed to protect existing individuals in america over the community welfare of the other countries or world.

> Crime bills?

That would depend specifically on the content of the bill.

> Give me an example of something the DO, not something they vaguely talk about.

Earlier in the thread (though im not sure you were tagged) I listed about a total of 20 specific things Obama and Biden have either voted on, or introduced that are clear left-wing stances

> Show me that they are willing to fight for those things, and not just give lip service to perpetuate political theater.

Yea I did that throught the thread as mentioned

> The relevance is that all sides of the issue agree in principle with some level of force to protect the public health. Neither side mandates it though, or pushes for absolute mandates.

What is left or right wing has **nothing** to do with what policies someone in the RNC or DNC follow... Yopu can not say "most people on the left hold these principles, therefore its a principle of the left" and then use that to define what hte left and right is.

The left and right is defined... if people who consider themselves on the left follow that definition strictly vs loosly

so all that means is when the DNC and the GOP agree on something it is one of three things 1) An issue that is neither left or right wing in nature 2) a left-wing ideology the GOP adopted 3) a right wing ideology the DNC adopted.

> We are discussing the existence of left wing parties in America. I gave example that would show their existence. Examples that do not exist. Because, there is no left wing party in America.

Which is exactly why your wrong. This is an invalid logical fallacy called the fallacy of composition. You can not assume that the parts must have the same properties as the whole.

In this sense the "whole" is "left-wing ideology" (or right) and the "part" is "someone who is on the left".. A liberal who is part of the left wing does **not** need to adopt the infinite number of potential left wing policies in the whole of the universe in order to qualify as being part of the left-wing.

> No, YOU are saying that. I say they are demonstrably right wing.

Yes what i meant by that is "this is what we are debating" you debating the opposite... and in this particular quote you were failing to argue the point.

@Free_Idealist @pyranose @georgetakei

@baldengineer Thanks for this, love seeing more EE content here.

@JonKramer

> Not sure he did create a monopoly

Ok then this wasnt even a valid point then.

> although I assume his administration oversaw the creation of a few. But without any doubt he continued the policies for existing monopolies, in the oil and gas industry, cable TV, internet service providers, pharmaceuticals, auto manufacturers, insurance companies (that is a HUGH one under Obama) and literally thousands of other monopolies licensed by the state.

He isnt a dictator, he doesnt get to dictate the state of things. He can, at best, suggest a bill (this is rare), and he can veto bills, thats it.. You act like he can go in and change anything to whatever he wants... it doesnt work that way.

So all we can do if we are honestly evaluate if he is left or right, is not to look at the things he never had a decision to make on at all.. we look on the votes he did make the actions he did. This nonsense of "everything wasnt perfect when he left so he is right wing for not fixing everything" is so beyond absurd...

> If you have an abortion ban that says you can not remove a dead fetus from a mother, then you do not care about the body autonomy of the mother.

On this I agree, then you dont care.. however that is **not** the stance of the right as a whole, so you are just blowing hot air on that one. While they are generally against abortion, sure, but whether or not they can abort a dead fetus is not a left or right idea specifically.

> Google up “abortion ban dead fetus” for examples where this is undeniably true.

I just searched it... what I found was that an overwhelming majority (66%) of the GOP beleive abortion should be legal under extenuating circumstances such as a dead fetus, risk to the mother, rape, etc.

So yea thanks, the search confirmed this is **not** a majority held property of those on the right. More importantly it wouldnt be objectively either per my above comments.

> The right doesn’t care about body autonomy.

Seeing as you encouraged me to look it up and the actual data confirmed perfectly the scenario I said and debunked your own... seems this is clearly proven to be false if we are judging them based on their policy stance.

> If they did, they would support drug use, prostitution, abortion, trans gender surgery, etc.

Well as covered earlier they actually **do** support drug use, more so then the left anyway. While Biden actively said he would not legalize marijuana Trump said he would... and while Trump didnt fully achieve it he came pretty damn close with the Farm Bill passed.

Abortion we already covered too.

Prostitution I agree is a right-wing policy stance. The GOP, while being mostly right wing, is not synonymous with the right wing. On most issues they pick a right-wing stance on very few they pick a left-wing... this is one of the few the GOP picks a left wing stance by not supporting it.

> And ‘the left’ doesn’t support those things either. Which to me indicates that ‘the left’ is almost as far right as ‘the right.’

No you mean the DNC doesnt support it. the DNC is not the same as the left even though they as a party are on the left (a person can be on the left and hold some non-left view so long as the aggregate is clearly left). When you go down the policy list of the DNC 98% of it is all on the left, 2% might be right wing ideas.... most of the policy stance however is not a right or left principle and denotes a different metric (like authoritarianism, which is independent of left or right)

> s for vaccines, I think American history is full of forced vaccines. The 1st forced vaccines were done by George Washington (innoculations). We have had vaccine passports since about WW I. Every school kid in public school has needed one since about 1950, Public health isn’t a left or right issue, and there have always been ways to bypass vaccines.

This doesnt even address what was said... Whether forcing people to take a drug is common and has been done before has absolutely **no** relevance on if it is a left or right wing principle... To argue its been the normal since forever as some twisted argument that it is left or right wing is just nonsensical and does nothing to advance that point.

Being against forced drugging of people (personal freedom) is a right wing principle... force drugging people for the greater good is a left wing principle. The fact that it has been done before and isnt new has no bearing on that.

> Repetition is not proof.

I agree, and what you responded to was not me repeating myself, so also not relevant. I had pointed to the fact this was already proven and evidence laid out earlier in the same message.. that is not repetition, that is avoiding repetition and refering you to the original proof instead.

> When the BLM candidates control even 25% of the government, when the Rent is Too Damn High Party has even NYC, when The ANTIFA party has 100 congressmen, and 30 senators… then their MIGHT be a left wing in this country. Right now we have the theocratic right, and the Senator from a credit card company.

Yea this is also really disconnected from what is being discussed... we arent saying the country is a left-wing country... we are saying Obama and Biden were left wing... huge difference. It amazed me you cant see how poorly your arguing your point... like somehow the entire country having high rent or somethign proves Obama and Biden werent left wing.... i almost sprained my muscled rolling my eyes on this one.

@Free_Idealist @pyranose @georgetakei

@danny Just a bit :)

@trinsec Ahh yes, I can see how Bilbo's birthday might help you remember your buddy's :)

Well thats unfortunately ironic....

#LGBT #LGBTQ #Ally

@trinsec Oh there is actually a day called hobbit day? I was just calling it that because today is the day the book was released... didnt know there was a real day called hobbit day that is the day after it was released.

While autism is very much real I am of the unpopular opinion that the vast majority of people diagnosed with autism are incorrectly diagnosed. What we see as Autistic a lot of times is just what it looks like being the only sane one in the room.

It just makes sense, many of the people diagnosed are the only ones being rational and respectful in a conversation while everyone else is going to fly off the handle and accusing them of being rude or insensitive.... Its not that the Autistic cant read emotions, its that the other people are so malajusted they fly off the handle at getting offended frivilously, often some sort of personality disorder at play. But instead of labeling 90% of people as having the personality disorder or whatever it is that causes them to be toxic, we blame the 10% of rational people who dont play into that game and call it autism.

Keep in mind im largely talking about people here who are fairly high functioning, If they have trouble with verbal skills or any of the other symptoms of autism that dont relate to human relations directly, those cases are likely very real, even the higher functioning ones.

@trinsec Pretty sure its the 21st... but im not expert thats just what the internet told me once

"Its not the better wolf that wins, its the one you feed" -- Classic two-world folk tale

Happy #Hobbit day everyone!