🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@thor

I can certainly understand that... I dont know your particular circumstances and im not saying its as simple as following advice either... its very circumstantial.

When ive helped people it was never just some one time adivce and then i come back and their doing grerat.... It was always a pretty large and somewhat personal commitment... well not always, but often.

Most of the people helped were at rock bottom after a lifetime of poverty. I usually offer very strict rules designed around their success and ont he condition that they get free room and board (and free education in some cases) should they stick to the rules. Since the alternative was literally homelessnes it usually was a strong enough deterrant they would take the offer.

All these people needed to trust me to do that though, and while oddly enough some of these people were new friends (in two cases I took them in after only knowing them a month or two).. it doesnt really play out too well with strangers considering the dynamic being asked of.

But a great many of them in the end moved out and to this day have a very successful career, their own home, and in some cases families.

@moffintosh

@moffintosh

You sure did, as if an ideology born out of decades of expiernce and success, both with others and myself, is somehow a bad thing... yes we form ideologies about things we come to understand... those ideologies are a good thing, not bad.

@thor

@moffintosh

Oh I absolutely have an ideology (as do you)... You are speaking of opinion and ideology whereas im speaking from a lifetime of actually helping people get out of poverty and seeing what does and what doesnt work... yes its math, and buying in bulk, while helpful, is not a requirement to get there.

@thor

@JoBlakely

> dude. now I know you are sealioning.

Oh no i get it, you are a toxic horrible human being who has no issue attacking minorities trying to address racism because... well your a shit human, thats what you do.

> I quoted you: "What I am trying to understand better isnt how it is biased, or unfair.. but rather what elements about it are explicit to race... I got that answer from another person"

Correct this is what I **was** trying to understand with my original question.. not if it was biased in a non-racial way, but specifically the racial biases inherent in the law itself, rather than the application of the law.

> So you keep moving the question and answer goalposts.

Nope, same goal post as my original reply.. I already quoted that original reply earlier and made that quite clear.

> Now you say that was never in question.

This is what I actually said "That part was never in question (as I pointed out in my original quote)... the fact that racists apply it unfairly is not the least bit in doubt and I stated so."

So, if you bothered to read this isnt a change in anything I stated with my original reply.. the fact that racists **apply** it unfairly was not something i ever questions (and ive shown this quite clearly with quotes)... was was asked is how the law itself (not its application) is considered racist.. something that has been answered and I agreed with so is now resolved.

> Please. you don't even know what you want to know. What is your question? Where do you stumble?

I said last time, there is no question left, no stumbling.. I asked it and a polite person came and gave a good answer.. its been resolved and I came to agree the law itself is also racist, not just its application.

Why you are obsessed that there is still some lingering questioning order to prove im sealioning, when there isnt, and in fact this was resolved quite quickly why you still keep pretending it wasnt is... bizzare to say the least.... I guess you gotta convince yourself your not a horrible person by pretending I am sealioning after all.. cant do that if you admit I accepted the first answer and agreed.

@thor

By itself it will only get you so far...

But thats the problem.. usually the people who dont take advice from people who got out of poverty because "they dont believe it" are the people who stay in poverty. But iu wont judge you for choosing what you feel is right for you.

@moffintosh

@JoBlakely

> You are asking why in a virulent racist country known for violent prevention of cultural and personal expression of BIPOC, the pointless enforcement of bs standards with no purpose other than to control is being disproportionately used to control BIPOC?
> Is that what you are wondering about?

Nope, and im really confused that despite my original comment saying nothing that remotely resembles what you said, and I have corrected you now several times, and even quoted myself to make it quite clear nothing resembling what you said was said.... yet you keep trying to repeat it like somehow your wrong assumptions are going to become reality if you repeat it enough.

> Really wondering what part you don't get.

There is nothing left I dont get. A person who was respectful to people and minorities actually responded and cleared up my earlier confusion and gave a good answer.

At this point we are mostly discussing how you were a toxic to a person who was kind and looking to understand something a bit better... nothing more is left since thankfully someone who wasnt toxic helped.

@moffintosh

While your right, the whole buying in bulk could be a potential trap of poverty.. its not really a good excuse... I dont know too many who got out of poverty by buying in bulk.. i mean yea sure once your able it might be an ok move to save a few pennies... but its not nearly as important as just penny pinching.

@thor

@JoBlakely

> What do you mean you want to understand 'what elements are explicit to race?' It's how it is arbitrarily & disproportionately applied.

That part was never in question (as I pointed out in my original quote)... the fact that racists apply it unfairly is not the least bit in doubt and I stated so.

The point is a law being racist or not is seperate from if the law is applied racist or not. If murder is made illegal and you only arrest black people for murder, then it is applied unfairly and in a racist way. No one would argue we need to strike murder from the books as a law because it is a racist law, of course not, instead we try to address the racism in one way or another.

By comparison a law like segregation or slavery is **inherently** racist regardless of if it is applied by someone without racial bias (as the law itself is racist).

Thats the question here, the original article claimed the law itself was unfair and racist, this part I was confused on (though now i can see reasons to justify this thinking). The fact that it was also applied in a racist way as the article claims was something i explicitly didnt question.

> I didn't presume you were white. I saw you didn't seem to know racism.

While I can accept that was your assumption, it was still based on you not even bothering reading my response (because you claimed i didnt know things that I explcitly claimed and agreed in my response)...

So the question remains, why did you make all these assumptions when clearly you didnt even bother to read my comment? You explanation as to why you felt it was justified was literally the complete opposite of what I **actually** said... Do you have an excuse for that or maybe you want to apologize and are willing to admit you were wrong for doing so?

I am happy to listen, but so far you sound like a bully who is just trying to justify their disgusting behavior rather than admit they were wrong.

@LilHulkQ

@thor ike I said.. ive seen people who were in their 30s and either homeless their whole lives or living wit their mother who through conciously changing their actions managed to learn to be successful.. and to this day they are now independent and successful.

I've personally seen far too many people learn the skill, myself included, that its hard to deny.

@thor I would never argue that circumstances dont put some people at an advantage, they absolutely do.... but the point is, this is a type of success that can be learned, and choices made to get there... some just may have aquired the resources while others havent... Thats why im an open resoruces, cause no one can say they dont have access to that help because my help is open to everyone. :)

@saxis You and me wouldnt, because you and me have well established morals that arent so fragile...

People who are still developing however who are abused in very hurtful ways absolutely might, because younger people often dont have the same coping mechanisms for dealing with their emotions.

You cant evaluate everyone, by our own personal internal firewalls.

@thor Absolutely, and I do... like I said, I never claimed everyone should be able to go it alone and be successful with no help from anyone... that wouldnt be fair.

@TruthSandwich

Bigotry is caused by a whole bunch of shit... and yes trauma, is often very closely linked. Most bigots you willfind became that way either by abuse from their parents or from peers at some point early on in life when their views were still developing and fragile.This is evident from the way it runs in families and is clearly passed down and not simply a choice.

@thor I sure am a factor... just as maybe the pshyciatrist might be the factor some other people need.

I am not claiming you should be able to makeit on your own with no help form anyone.. if i thought that I wouldnt bother helping people.

@JoBlakely

I agree with you, as I stated in my original reply as well they are wrong, biased, etc... that was never in question. What I am trying to understand better isnt how it is biased, or unfair.. but rather what elements about it are explicit to race... I got that answer from another person who instead of attacking me and calling me a sealion actually bothered to make a sincere attempt at answering that, and they had a good answer: because it assumes a white cultural norm (long hair being unprofessional) that does not exist in other cultures. And thus is written to specifically enforce the rules of a white culture... it was a good answer... just a shame people like you were derailing an honest productive conversation.

@LilHulkQ

@thor not sure what your asking.

@thor No we arent talking about people who were successful and just happened to wind up homeless... We are talking about high school drop outs who have spent their whole lived homeless many of whom have never had a job or ever been responsible.

If it was simply a matter of someone having a unfortunate step id just give them money as they would have no lessons to learn.

@JoBlakely

> Yeah, i did ask because a) you do not identify as such until now nor bring any insight from your experience to this.

Incorrect, I post my heritage as a Native American clearly and prominately on my bio... At no point did I make any claim I was white or not a minority.. You **assumed** I was white and didnt bother to ask or check. That was an error on your part, but a simple "im sorry" would be fine, people make mistakes it just comes down to how you respond when you realize it. Now that you do....

> I would think if you had met with it in any real measure then your own experience with racism would have informed you as to how and why it gets applied unfairly.

So you didnt even bother to read my reply before calling me a sealion and blocking me?

I literally said in my very first reply I see quite clearly how and why it might be **applied** in a racist manner. Just like any rule of any kind can and will be applied unfairly... Here is the exact quote of what I said in my very first reply:

> Now i think its fair to be concerned it was **applied** raciall and only use to attack this poor kid and letting whites who violate get a pass.. and that should be illegal and persued in court if that happened.

@LilHulkQ

@TruthSandwich

No you dont have to already be a biggot... being abused and responding to that by hating the group that abused you is very human and visceral.. it can and will effect even non-bigots.