🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@Fishbed

Hahah indeed :)

@stux @zeitverschreib

@Fishbed

100% spot on.

I suspect what is happening here is Stux is actually a good person. Like any good person you hear about the death penalty and you are appalled. He has an emotional reaction (a very justified one). Then in that state he hears about gassing, and rightfully associates it with Nazis. He should be associating the murder with nazi's but the gas part is what stands out for some reason. So now he is offfended at the gas choice, in reality I think he is just offended by the murdering and the association with nazis is just too easy to make the association even though its not the part that matters.

Stux has the tendency to get a little emotional when literal nazi shit is going down, and well, can we even blame him?

@stux @zeitverschreib

@MennoWolff

I am notoriously difficult to find a vein on. I have been in emergency situations where they needed to get an IV in me and they couldnt do it even after 3 different people tried.

But what are you even trying to accomplish here by finding ways to force a lethal injection to work? We have a far more effective way that just works as-is with absolutely none of these risks and is more humane... why are you trying to wrangle a way to keep injections alive at all?

@MennoWolff

> It beats me why they don't just sedate these people and simply chop off their head or so.

Because there is more risk of suffering. Sedation step might not work right. It also disfigured the body for a proper funeral and is messy. A single gas that has both sedative and lethal effects is the lowest risk and most humane of any options. Particularly when its biologically simple so has no potential for drug interactions or an immune system response.

@stux

@MennoWolff

Gas flow will be very high so none of the examples you give will matter. Even if all that happens he will still have a lethal dose of N2.

Also N2 has sedative effects and there is no suffering when you have low but sufficient oxygene. So even in the worst case its sedative effects will slow breathing and result in the situation still killing him humanely.

@stux

@MennoWolff

> Meh. How is making a machine that administers a fluid intravenously complicated?

I take it you arent in the medical industry and have never had to give an IV based on this statement. As I said to those who are knowledgable on this the answer is many ways:

1) Finding a vein, this can be hard on many people. In the hospital it isnt uncommon that an expert wont be able to find a vein on either arm or even the hands.

2) Once a vein is found it may not work, for example it may be a collapsed vein and wont take the drug.

3) If there is damage to the vein it may leak into surrounding tissue causing a less than lethal dose, or cause the death to be prolonged

4) if you miss the vein you may accidentally inject into the muscle or fat, again causing a less than lethal dose or prolonged death

5) Since the lethal injection is a multi-stage dose you have multiple chances for error that can cause suffering. For example a sedative is administered first, then the lethal injections. If the first stage breaks and the second succeeds it can lead to suffering.

6) Because of the increased complexity drug interactions can prevent or effect the first stage and thus cause suffering int he second stage.

7) You can have something clog up the system or a motor break or something, since its an orcastra of events this can lead to all sorts of suffering or issues

All of the above more or less doesnt apply to N2.

@Oggie @gnate

> If the first line had instead been 'this is why we invented the comically racist mandatory minimum drug schedule classification', would that have suited you better?

No

With that change the quote would still be factually and logically wrong. The phrase "and then criminalize both heavily" makes no sense since Nixon did not criminalize both heavily. The criminalization took place 44 years earlier and Nixon actually **reduced** the penalties not increased them.

Therefore even with that change its factually wrong,and logically wrong since the reason it claims nixon did a thing he didnt actually do cant possibly make logical sense.

> That's what this is in reference to, I am fairly certain, and the controlled substances act business we're still dealing with fallout now from. That was from Nixon in 1970, and is when the deeply horrible systems got installed.

Yes this is trying to reference the 1970 act, but again that act **reduced** the penalty on possession from a felony to a misdemeanor, it didnt make it more criminalized it made it less. Thus why literally no part of the original quote makes any sense logically or factually.

@MelodyCooper

@MennoWolff

As for being prone to fuckups.. its hard for me to see how. All of the messups for lethal injectionsa re easily forseen by anyone who has given an injection. I honestly cant think of too many ways N2 could could fuck up.

@stux

@MennoWolff

Sadly the news is almost always wrong in 80% of the content in any article. Reading hte news these days is the best way to be uninformed.

Chances are, as with all news articles, it made no effort to actual explain to you the facts. Instead it likely had some agenda it was trying to sell you on and make that point. Likely either how much america sucks, or how offended we should be by the death penalty. So actually explaining it honestly wouldnt have served whatever the intended purpose is.

@stux

@georgetakei

He was the only host of tbe daily show i ever really loved.

@gnate

If someone just made the general argument that the "war on drugs" has been used immorally to and disproportionately to attack and lock up peaceful minorities, then absolutely. As long as there is racism in a society there will always be unfair application of laws, particularly laws that outlaw nonviolent acts. So no doubt there.

Only thing i call BS on is the specific content of this post and the quote provided. The content of the quote is factually and logically wrong and clearly not a truthful interpretation of the genesis of drug laws.

@Oggie @MelodyCooper

@lowqualityfacts

Little known fact. I once held the world record for being the youngest person in the world.

@MennoWolff

> You're right. I forget which state this was, but they screwed up several times, with this SAME guy!😲

Indeed, and with other people in different states in a similar way. Thus the main reason for moving to gas, to prevent these sort of fuck ups and reduce the suffering of people we kill. While I cant approve of the death penalty if we are going to have the death penalty this is the correct and more humane way to do it.

> But the availability of the drugs does play a role. Some states stocked up before suppliers stopped delivering.

Yes and no, there have been drug shortages in the past, but nothing that is related to whats going on here, and was very trivially resolved. You are thinking of the fact that sodium pentathal used to be used as the sedative component of lethal injection which had supply issues in the past, largely because it isnt used for much of anything. All they did was switch drugs to pentobarbital which has no real supply issues.

There are plenty of lethal injection options, most of which are trivial to obtain.

> This is the biggest irony to me: they look to big pharma companies to supply the drugs which are made with the best quality control, because they are not allowed to ask a local redneck chemist to make some of the same drug. That would be "unsafe" 🥴😵‍💫

There is some irony there indeed :)

@stux

@MelodyCooper

Also you are missing the point it is literally factually wrong and the actual events that took place are the exact opposite... namely, that heroin was illegal for 44 years before nixon and that Nixon actually **lessened** the penalty for simple possession, he didnt increase the criminality he reduced it.

@MelodyCooper Not ignoring or misunderstanding it. The statement here is explicitly stating it was done because of Nixon's enemies. So any long term effects beyond Nixon are moot given the proposed reasoning here.