@ColinTheMathmo
Got it ! (it was a combo post- so not just for you but to go as a FreeSchool usable thing / picture example)...

I think I'm done on it and indeed "it has been said" and yeah also... I'd like to initiate with you a chat so that's there too anytime, please add a future date :)

But yes I'll leave it there for now and jump to my next useful thing added in my list from conversations!

@freeschool You're still not answering the points I made earlier ... it still comes across as just another video/audio conferencing tool.

Maybe the interface is better, but that's really not the point.

@ColinTheMathmo
Aha excuse me for that - it was not my intention to make it about something totally different (I thought at least partially saying more about Jitsi would help and should have mentioned I'm not claiming it to be all you want perhaps)

And in my favour (or towards clarity) I don't see *almost any points* mentioned in this cha (please let me know if it's there).
Other than mentioning it's 'another' of the same video conferencing soft... :)
So it would be good to mention (if you really wanted to in the first place) what is it you are looking for in more detail... you mention Gather Town hits the sweet spot but not how or why so much so not specifying also I think can get use partially elsewhere... unless I really missed something in your text
So what really is your point apart from anger or frustration?
What are looking for as a list or more points?

Sorry if that seems direct but if it's not said then I think that's fair on me for taking initiative providing into until or when you also bring the focus back no?
Got no problems with bringing focus back to saying whatever * wasn't* what you were looking for...

@freeschool My original toot was born of utter frustration over the Zoom interface. I'm forced to use it because that's what organisation use. They use it because they're used to it, and because they know their delegates will be used to it, and it's utterly vile as an interface.

So my original toot was simply born or frustration.

Then you just in and say "Jitsi is wonderful! Use Jitsi".

Well, Jitsi might be wonderful, but I don't have a choice.

And it's really just another audio/video ...

@ColinTheMathmo
Okay - so the choice is important for you and maybe you feel like you can't ask them to use Jitsi? (I can get that if true)
....like you feel you can't ask even as a "fun test" or even
..."I'd like a break from the Zoom norm, could it be possible to try this link and if it doesn't work in 5mins we go try zoom again?".

Seems you're saying you feel it's not poss for asking or testing something else even for 1 of these calls formally or informally?

You have helped in clarifying so that's good.

I 'hear' (without knowing everything of course) that you also find it hard to control, maybe even hard to voice your opinion (for things like background music, not muting, etc) so I get what you mean but there is a level of asking / managing personally yourself (a bit) 'maybe maybe' possible

and then there's also just the usual "human balance" which I hear is a mixture of 2 things:

1- Controlling yourself; these tools (not being overwhelmed / having too many apps / not being pulled constantly) and people connected around, how often etc
2- And general quality of humanness or online considerations which I feel one can ask and even say your perspective as a soft-training and let people decide to continue with music on/off or not etc. Your own agency unless you feel in oppressive organisation or environments that extreme(!) where you can't try.

It's helped see more about why you like Gather Town - but for those unfamiliar - still mostly I can hear it's the moving around freedom you feel which maybe is different to why you 'must' have these Zoom calls - so is it comparable as Gatehr town seems more leisure / informal and not for your organisation ? Otherwise you could move out of the zoom call too to something else if it was a option interaction like that ! Seems like 2 use-cases here...

Even in the basic zoom ue-case (either lesuire or business) what is the frustration if you do audio or video chat when there is not much else needed to do other than watching screen and talking?
(again I feel your usage is not clear / could be clearer) because the obvious or typical answer is "don't need to use the interface for audio / video" or "how is that frustrating"?...
(I get your frustrated your organisation uses it or you feel forced... but I don't see how I could make a suggestion / are you even wanting a suggestion about that? ( other than some obvious things like ask them / change your job which I wouldn't say usually and I think you are not looking for suggestions on that)...

so apart from maybe the advice you're not looking for about changing your organisation or asking them... anyway still just for a/v chatting it would be fairly similar to assume is just speaking or watching people on screen

which is mostly handsfree / no interface really needed other than more aesthetics?

@freeschool I'm talking about conferences with hundreds of participants ... of *course* they're not going to listen to me, or try something novel.

I also feel like you're really, really not getting the point. It feels like you're an complete zealot for Jitsi, and you're not really listening. You claim you are, and I've not yet read the wall of text you've just sent me (you know, because I'm in a conference at the moment) but it feels like you are just hell-bent on convincing me to use Jitsi ...

@ColinTheMathmo
>zealot for Jitsi
Nope just trying to get clarity. Metioned why I mentioned it and why I'm searching for clarity - which this got somewhat but what you want is not 100% clear

I think we can give it a break. I see you said you're in a conference which might help add to the confusion. Read it back later and just see I'm interested in what you really want...

and if you say *of course* they will not listen then I have to believe you or consider it's maybe risky somehow more than saying it and having done your bit (i.e. saying nothing is 100% not going to get that changed for you)

Thanks for replies, many have interpreted my length towards clarity (search for ? marks and see there are some you missed or didn't really say much about)

But for now in such quick exchanges we didn't not bad.

Happy to revisit later or via DM (again the "?" and reading fresh from top down means you might see it's combination of my thing / your thing / seeing what it is you want (even if it didn't exist what's the ideal?)... but please answer later maybe having a review of this in another time/environment than your current :)