Since the BridgyFed drama, there might be four more reasons for Mastodon users to want Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) out of the Fediverse. I mean, aside from their usual atrocities like their users writing well over 500 characters, using text formatting, quoting and quote-posting like it's totally normal. Because it is for them. And aside from no instance on any of the three having rules and moderator numbers on par with Mastodon.

One, they aren't based on ActivityPub. They're technically bridged to Mastodon. They're bridged one instance at the time, and the bridge is a plug-in on the instance and therefore part of the project. But still, it isn't that much different from BridgyFed connecting Bluesky to the rest of the Fediverse.

Two, since they aren't based on ActivityPub, they're aliens. Aliens of basically the same kind as Bluesky, only that they've mostly got those features that Mastodon has that Bluesky doesn't. But the BridgyFed drama isn't about Bluesky's features or lack thereof, and it isn't only about Bluesky being commercial either. It's also about Bluesky being too different in technology, functionality and culture. But let me tell you a secret: Bluesky is probably much closer to Mastodon than Hubzilla. I mean, I've already mentioned how Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) users "misbehave" from a Mastodon point of view. You won't see any of this come from Bluesky anytime soon.

Three, Friendica is already fully federated with Bluesky. It's a feature that was introduced with the latest stable release.

Four, speaking of Friendica, that allegedly "hate-fuelling" Fediverse News is a public group account on Friendica. Only that the user who started that particular thread is on Firefish, and Fediverse News only automatically forwarded what he had posted.

So where's the outrage?

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #BridgyFed #Bluesky #Bridge #BlueskyBridge

@jupiter_rowland Hi Jupiter. I learn new stuff each time i read your posts, it seems, but here i'm quite struggling. I seem to be entirely ignorant of most of the things you've mentioned above.

"the BridgyFed drama" ... 🤷‍♀️
"Mastodon users to want Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) out of the Fediverse" ... they do? OMZ! Why? I mean, yes i read & understand all your points about our formatting & character limits, but i had no idea this was causing some adverse Masto user conflict 😮
"aren't based on ActivityPub" ... OMZ, i nearly fell over at this one. I thought everything in the fediverse was predicated on this, in that that was how the fediverse was even a thing. Geez i am so ignorant. 🤦‍♀️
"Friendica is already fully federated with Bluesky" ... oh, well, this one i do dislike. Now i need to research how i can block #Bluesky; i really want nothing to do with it, nor #Threads.
"allegedly "hate-fuelling" Fediverse News is a public group account on Friendica" ... sigh. I simply don't understand how i am so unaware. I am active each day in my account, yet somehow remain cluelessly obliviously ignorant of nuclear wars raging around me. Sigh.

@alfred

@MsDropbear42 [venera] 🐨♀🌈🐧​🦘 Someone is building a bridge between ActivityPub and AT Protocol.

This means that the AT Protocol Servers (currently Bluesky, Friendica) can talk to ActivityPub servers (Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla, PeerTube, Pixelfed, etc., etc.).

Some people are so angry that they are flipping out and dropping F bombs.

And there are many protocols in the fediverse. ActivityPub is the most popular, but there are also Zot, Nomad, OpenWebAuth, Diaspora, and more. There is even a protocol called Scuttlebutt.

For example, Hubzilla uses the Zot protocol to talk to other Hubzilla servers, and Streams uses the Nomad protocol to talk to other Streams servers. Streams uses Zot to talk to Hubzilla. And both can use ActivityPub as well.

And far as Friendica federating with Bluesky, the administrator of the server would have to activate that. So not all Friendica servers would support AT protocol since it is an optional addon the admin would have to install.

The reality is that we have over 46,000 independently operated servers on the fediverse, and that is growing every day. Bluesky would simply be server number 46,001.

@scott Hello Scott, t/y muchly for taking the time to explain that helpfully for me. 🤗 At the risk of appearing even more stupid...

"building a bridge between ActivityPub and AT Protocol" ... yes i had heard of that, but til now had been naively unaware of all the Sturm und Drang this is apparently generating, eg... "so angry that they are flipping out and dropping F bombs" --> to the extent that i am doing my several hours of daily fediversing, i spend all that time in my Home timeline, not in the local server nor global timelines, & in my Home i follow a very large number of #hashtags, + a smaller but not negligible number of accounts. Clearly an unintended by-product of my curation has been to insulate me almost entirely from these apparent "range wars" raging beyond my purview.
You listed #Friendica twice, ie, in both of the "protocol camps". Is that a typo, or deliberate? If the latter, it might explain & resolve my confusion when reading Jupiter's OP, given somehow i had been thinking that Friendica is using AP.
"Scuttlebutt" ... i love this, & shall now immediately begin searching for suitable instances i can join! 😜
"far as Friendica federating with Bluesky, the administrator of the server would have to activate that" ... yes, that's exactly as i hoped it would be, which is why before, & again now, i have cc'd @alfred

Thanks again.

@MsDropbear42 [venera] 🐨♀🌈🐧​🦘 Thanks for the complements. To answer your questions:

1. Most of the hate was directed at the developer who created the bridge and appeared as replies to his post announcing the bridge. Unless you were following him, or visited his channel on his website, you probably would have missed it anyway. The developer seemed to take it well and listened to people's feedback, but some people were inexcusably mean and hateful. Lots of F bombs directed at the developer. And there was a lot of ignorance about how the fediverse actually works (i.e. most didn't know that their posts are already federated beyond Mastodon).  

2. When AT Protocol officially federates, Friendica admins will have the option of turn on AT protocol support natively, which means that Friendica would become a server on the AT protocol network, just like Bluesky. It will probably be one of the first implementations of AT protocol outside of Bluesky itself. Friendica also supports ActivityPub natively as well, so if an admin has both turned on, they are operating on both networks simultaneously. That's why they are listed on both sides.

3. Scuttlebutt is an interesting protocol. It is designed for social interactions using devices that are not always connected to the internet or not connected to the internet at all. Devices basically pass on messages to one another without the use of the internet. (At least that is my limited understanding of it.)

4. The nice thing about platforms like Friendica, Hubzilla, and Streams is that they are big on user choice and control. So even if your administrator activated it, you still have some control as a user as to whether you see posts from Bluesky.

@Scott M. Stolz

And there was a lot of ignorance about how the fediverse actually works (i.e. most didn't know that their posts are already federated beyond Mastodon).

...much less beyond ActivityPub.

Not to mention that a lot of Mastodon users don't understand how Mastodon works. They think it must have a pool of all accounts and all posts and all that somewhere, and the BridgyFed Bluesky bridge will give Bluesky unlimited access to it all.

They also think that Bluesky will be able to post nasty stuff to everyone, even those who aren't connected to anyone on Bluesky. They think the same about Threads, because in their heads, they're still on Twitter where the secret-sauce algorithm would probably allow for that to happen.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Threads #Meta #BridgyFed #Bluesky #Bridge #BlueskyBridge

@small patatas Based on what I read, it sounded like there is no mirroring. It simply converts from one protocol to another and passes on the request.

If you are on ActivityPub and follow someone on Bluesky, your follow request gets sent to the bridge, which converts it to the other protocol, and sends the follow request to the Bluesky server. The Bluesky server then starts sending posts to the bridge addressed to you, and the bridge reformats it and it appears in your ActivityPub app.

So you are actually following the Bluesky channel, not an ActivityPub copy of a Bluesky channel.

There is no mirror. There are no duplicate accounts on each side. You speak English and the translator app spits out Spanish. That's all the bridge does. Translates from one protocol to another.