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This is not a democracy...? Honest perhaps in many ways (in whatever this context)... 

So fake or real context, we the people need to find a solution to how to get around dictatorship (even under democracy as the title).

Democracy is measurable and if every says it's not then it's probably something else :)

So to remember this when using their tools (developed for themself) is important as it only breeds the like minded.
Even in law.

So trying ok we can do other ways 'inside system' or maybe 'use it against itself' but still this is perhaps going to be the last word / sentence below:

This is not a democracy

( ...in theory or in practice
...we it see now and historically and measurably supports this case. )

We need out of that.

I know I might mix things here and could do a mistake but if you mainly see or mainly agree government is head then it is a bit of dictator and has hands on all the strings.

So even if it's a group dictatorship / elitism (whatever), let's say the mentality of profit -
this can be a type of dictatorship based on creation ONLY from money that dictates life being born.
Anything else is a problem to 'it' (the structure, assumptions, systematic patterns)

What to do about it? (is also interesting for me with above in mind)

Personal DM / audio chats welcome.

@bad_immigrant

Honest perhaps in many ways (in whatever this context)... 

So fake or real, we the people need to find a solution to how to get around dictatorship (even under democracy title).

To keep remember this when using their tools developed for themself or like minded. Even in law.
So yes ok do other ways also but still this is perhaps going to be the last word / sentence.

This is not a democracy (perhaps)
...in theory or in practice we see now and historically.

We need out of that.

I know I might mix things here and could do a mistake but if you mainly see or mainly agree government is head then it is a bit of dictator and has hands on all the strings.

So even if it's a group dictatorship / elitism (whatever) / mentality of profit - tjem we might say that this can be a type of dictatorship based on creation ONLY from money that dictates life being born and continuing 'without problem' to it.

What to do about it? (is also interesting for me with above in mind)

Personal DM / audio chats welcome.

Thanks @bad_immigrant

Wall Street was a slave trading marketplace and a securities trading site (random reading)... 

Not that important to me but really surprising how much Dutch influence and involvement everywhere.

Anyway theses sentences struck me as surprising....

" Wall Street was originally known in Dutch as "de Waalstraat" when it was part of New Amsterdam in the 17th century, though the origins of the name vary...

" Wall Street was a slave trading marketplace and a securities trading site "

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Str

Interested in doing a small intro / podcast chat for this?

example below, can be more formal or casual, main thing is to enjoy:

freeschool.0id.org/debian-deve

@jens @alcinnz

Non-programmers... What to do with people over the internet who are not programmers? 

or not-so-high level in IT?

Seems as a society we maybe don't have answer and need more unnecessary bullshit jobs like digging roads as there isn't anything else it seems for lower tier mindful people (apart from maybe argue or educate etc and then die out since jobs don't support freedom!)

(I'm sticking my neck out here a bit- but I'm still positive in asking a hard question. Happy if I am given ANY ideas how to help use the potential in everyone without having to be sniper or mercenary level) more in the online sense.
Plenty to do something seems missing...

colours are rad for this game unknown to me (hows it play? did you try it?)
@dosnostalgic

3 times deeper!
oh my!
I'm going to have to prepare a reaction to that!,.

I just can't text anything right now... I'm just schocked!! O_O

@freemo

Crazy deep for the average person!
Like floating down a tall multi-story building like 20 levels deep!

@freemo

Great external pics of you, Makes a real difference from 1st person.

1st + 3rd pic is worthy of desktop wallpaper (for detail and for deep abyss look)

Postcards and business cards might also be cool just for a small run and dedicated compliment to those that like it (like a specific birthday card) when you know someone will get wowed by it and spend them wisely rather than big mass of card to start a fire with :) (I'm not sure how ecological it is for big batches but few personalised things maybe ok)

:) I enjoyed

If technical oversight is not there we have basically handed over our society.

Without distracting from the specific topic in any bad way,.. 

I guess that's a thought getting nearer and I even appreciate the real-world suggestion....
...but it also seems even too honest and not calculating the same stuff that will happen again with any solution... for example to use any uni / hosp / pharmacy seems short -lived with even any existing mentality or strings already there ( rules / regulations... if not the various types of fear...) so I'm looking for a more-sure way - where people don't want or need to keep their jobs etc (or something as crazy as this ideal since it all goes back to that and eating food / family for basic decision making)

So good to zoom in and also I mean mostly something zoomed out also at the reoccurring behaviour of power / control so it's a mix of patching things and temporary measures until they break it up and also something else. How to sort that out as it manifests, is re-spawned or just bent back as we fix it anything, thereby depleting our energy and efforts (even if solving anything for a short time while all our lifeblood is in their hands it seems). Wow dramatic but anyway happy to hear how the story ends in the positive sense.

Basically holding ransom the living, and leveraging family born into debt... I did wonder how giving child benefit was possible... all comes back down to these things so that's why I want to solve it for better decision making.

These are the common considerations when life is born from the bad, and difficult to change to the good, as the answer or 'straightening' of system involves many people, if not everyone taking the hit for what system cheats and doing more 'honest' ways (including not taking money / bribes / less jobs / less tax etc), A whole-hearted bad-only system (to put it as simply as I can) is not something I feel only small patches fix, it needs a whole new operating system suddenly or even to leave that computer more off than on until we figure out how to stop it funding more baddies and funding us at the same time.

Perhaps as a reflection of the 'great system' we have is that skews *everything* from the starting of paperwork, numbers, paying dues, to what they say and do never being much different than a cover up- and all that being what we have to probably have to say no to eventually and really turn it around in one swoop or really carefully patchworking it all !

Really is a hard one to be born into and grow out of. Like undoing each thing but only if patterns of power that are willing will the very honest / upfront / clear ways work which it will eat for it's dinner like the WW mentality it still aspired to - no way that will work for us - that mentality is more than happy to throw it's civilians under the tank like the original ways it probably got the land!
(not trying to inflame here just seems quite the same)
Happy to converse more than text.
@jwildeboer

Without distracting from the specific topic in any bad way,.. 

@jwildeboer Any ideas how to counter such
things? ( if I may be permitted to generalise this as 'by design' or originally not really care based and therefore rife in everything. )

@jwildeboer

The sentiment is correct but the reality is DIFFERENT... 

IF existence is tied so strongly to money and food etc (and yes we want to sort that) how does one come out of this very sharp ultimatum and vicious cycle ?

The rest below is less important but there isn't obviously a short answer in that chain to answer that above sentence (other than talking about it) so always more to it... have a look

For example I want to live but everything is based on a BS job or actually JOBS themselves in the first place are a Gov-created artificial extension of themselves and what almost ONLY helps pay them more than anything useful... so to work and exist we end up paying them to do more bad while arguably be allowed to be alive or die out if we are out of supply line :/
Honestly nobody would expect it as such a locked game from the very beginning (by design and war-like territorial mentality) but they got it down from the beginning if not worse now...

I could go on and on to do a podcast with you all about it but seriously basing life on basically the artificial things to start with that grew us all, and 'helped' keep us alive renders the 'fixing real problems' useless unless you're kind of suicidal Mad Max character (or Bruce Willis / Mel Gibson if you like with all the long shot type stuff)... it's like asking people to do the high jump or pole vault with the bar high up in the sky while not robbing the store for basic food - so I want to solve this rather than heckle or say fuck this or that.

So we're all helping with bits we can but still it's like food, money, doh!... doh!
[ awkward looks at each other... shrug ]

I think we need something doable to bring the bar down, as they (we also) deliberately make it so high in how we do things and do the mistake to charging / paying for life in the first place instead of giving it / oaying forward. We fork ourselves with decision making based on poor-inducing money. Anyway...

We (the clever now not wanting to use money primarily) need to work out how to make it possible so it's not just that gov way or the highway with no gas AND make a middle way with a doable, logical, incremental thing (or whatever) for people to bring bar down at least while feeding themselves and finding something to do (sometimes we don't even want the food the keeping busy is important!!)
without all needing to be extreme... because it's sure as hell still a hell trying to work for free and finding something 8¬]

So I've been offering labour for free for ages and come across others that nobody can seemingly do anything with, aside for small gestures and projects can't go anywhere without money and a whole heap of mistrust (not from my side), so I'm still happy to do for free but I'm starting to die already waiting so long and it's like people don't believe it's possible anyway to give others something to do if not the world to their own children (again another thing to solve!). So it feels like we ourselves are looking at people (me) as boxes of specialisation only and often first asking what they do for a living (the kinds wrong measurement of a person right? based on those 'professional' government tax boxes and setups) and not understanding how people are more than just 1 skill and can do many things for hours on end... for more than 1 person AND yeah I'll keep my day job too!

Everyone in all relationships has the 'job' (responsibility) to explore this or else face the capitalistic containers encroaching only too happy to help you look at each other in a cheapening/falsely inflated market AND say they are taking more money from you again. "Welcome to the world kids. Gotta go work now... See you next week"

So "Dear Aral-like people... I'm looking for more to do... can you suggest something?" And don't expect me to do all the hard work in trying to be a magic answer, you have to be excited / believe / etc... that in the many there is some magic but we might have to accept help from average or dig the geniuses out from the programming holes they like to dig into only to realise it's humans again that need sorting not the code that Alphabet soup companies takes over after and locks us out of!

" Oh hi I saw your message / email / note on the noticeboard..."
" I'm sorry I don't see how we can use you at the moment and it's nice you do things for free .... "

(no sarcasm or big bitterness here just reality - and if I'm wrong somehow other people do something better and get the understanding that THIS IS THE INTERNET that's why I'm the weird person contacting you (lol) then let me know as logically that's what we probably need... but still the greats don't seem to get that... maybe they don't have the answers or the communication skills but actually the answer is to just go forward and get through awkwardness and soon you'll realise whose worthy of time and who is not... no other way and since most are genuine I feel we could start anytime now and I'm happy to 'process' people to see what they can do in a nice way for humanity.

I'm writing here so it's not just sentiments or skyscraper expectations from any level of food / survival needs....
Not just running after those festival speakers :> for real examples

No heckling anyone on a platform I believe in.

Again, writing short or speaking short is obviously not proportionate to what needs understanding for good reason (and this is what the good work is, everyone talking more personally) because when there is a long chain there are big gaps in people's understanding. And even with pro's, having sapience above that is important and more human. No need for Olympic style attitudes.

I guess a short sentiment is nice.
And this long text can be interpreted otherwise when it's equally sympathetic or not trying to be harsh.
Hmm

For those clever or who can hold conversation, please step up will you - we're dying out here and being drained... the least we could do is pay our respect, learn to fight nicely, help you in our free time instead of watching Netflix and feel our achievement today was to 'complete watching a the whole series' (no I don't do this series stuff any more!)

In the case of ' improving lives ' or ' real problems ' outside of correcting the will of those with power who are multiplying and spawning things, I'd like for people like you, you and you (not just Aral) to do the mention way of trying to find answers, even a bit of painful conversation otherwise it's a bit rich (no idea what that means but until we get into audio chat I guess there's not going to be much nice comeback about it). So just message me directly and privately whoever you are as you must be special if you have some answer (or if can handle the answer itself as the audio conversation that helps upgrade us all) without expecting it all or any tricky business...

@aral

Great, but the question was also there. 

How to play it between us even if we had most of the control?

It's perhaps just as important almost not to hear just more of the same injustices and to focus on the crushingly hard answers (without expecting it all) rather than more of the same hearing of bad stuff from far.

How to play it between us even if we had most of the control?

@samuraikid

What to do with woke people? 

The Problem (or solution needed) is also now what to do with woke people (without assuming they do nothing and not assuming they are just waiting) but really what to do with even woke people, people with time and know right from wrong, offering their time for free etc.... well I'm happy to hear anyway...
@samuraikid

Maintaining the end of wars (not starting more) is the hard part. 

So I enjoy the comment a lot (and I believe similarly it's possible) but at the same time I know we need to ask and answer in ourselves, the ground-level people, how to answer / cover Power and Control because it's naturally always in the equations and on the cards, difficult even in the best of people or circumstances - so how to play it between us even if we had most of the control?
It's tough to balance and maintain it even without deliberate imbalances or deceptions - so many opinions and ways to do it... so my question to myself and others is how, even with without even those trying too hard to implement new rules and tricks, would we make sure it doesn't tend to go the same way again?
Thanks @samuraikid

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