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@soller
Federation is still the Worst of All Worlds
pseudorandom.resistant.tech/fe

TLDR: "Federation results in the data of people being subject to the whims of the owner of the federated instance." "while gaining none of the benefits of scale and discovery that centralized systems provide."

Then there is The Limits to Digital Consent
members.newdesigncongress.org/

TLDR: Our research finds that current attempts to cultivate informed consent into data-driven systems likely fall short of their stated goals due to a host of issues including insufficient understanding of the power dynamics inherent to organizational politics, network complexity at scale, political accountability, and the second- or third-order effects of different designs of local-first data strategies.

@kemuri I can make my own mastodon server any time I want. Your statements directly conflict what I have observed.

@soller You can because you are powerful enough to begin with: your technical know-how, your income to cover keep-up, etc.

I invite you to think:

For someone who cannot, on what shall they base their trust in a Mastodon server?

How is that different from Twitter?

I don't have a satisfying answer myself, despite having tried various open alternative SNSes. I believe these are hard questions essential to creating a better SNS in the future. So I ask out of sincere respect.

@kemuri @soller The gist of it is, you have the freedom to move your data wherever you desire and keep your network with follows, followers and post history intact. How is that different from Twitter? Well, that's not even an option on Twitter to begin with. There are not alternative sites to export your Tweeter data and keep your network alive. Also, your whole digital footprint is not mined for commercial gain here.
Advice: pick an instance with moderation you trust. Or launch your own.

@overcode @soller
"pick an with moderation you trust"
How? Did you systematically assess a list of moderation teams, went over their past enforcement behaviors, and came to a conclusion that you trust the mods of fosstodon.org specifically? If so, what was your procedure and how long did it take? Would you advise others to follow it?

"move your data wherever you desire and keep your network"
That's nice, but if a server has lost your trust to the point you are moving off, what happens to the data you left there? As trust is already lost, do you trust that the server would delete your account properly?

"your whole digital footprint is not mined for commercial gain here"
That's nice, but it can still be mined for spite or for surveillance. And what do you really mean by "here"? I am not on fosstodon.org, not that I think qoto.org is mining, but how large can "here" cover?

Again, sorry I am throwing out questions I don't have satisfying answers myself.

@kemuri @soller Those are all quite reasonable concerns.
I myself have been thinking about them too.

@kemuri @soller I opted for Fosstodon mainly because it is a FOSS and tech themed instance. Its code of conduct and ideals match with mine, I have been following the main maintainers for a while, they seem like 'nice' people. Experience since I opened the account has been positive. I believe people can be good, reasonable, and have good intentions. Now, this could get out of hand as you say. I guess the ultimate solution is to fire up your own instance.

@kemuri @soller When using a third party instance, copies of our data are in a third party system, which we don't control. A malicious agent could access the public APIs of the fediverse and mine the data for analysis (for potentially bad purposes). But the federation makes this quite difficult, instances are decentralized.

In any case, If you need to avoid exposure you can limit access to your posts and account. It is built in, in the software (as a user, and as an instance administrator).

@kemuri @soller And even with all this in mind, there are concerns and platform weaknesses that will be problematic as the fediverse grows. It is good to think about them. The protocol (ActivityPub) will be improved and I am pretty sure best practices (as to how to create community, best instance sizes, moderation) will appear eventually.

Personally, I am quite happy with the Fediverse being a thing. And with it growing, it is gonna be more fun and learning for all of us.

@overcode

I am happy that Mastodon has thrived behind the scenes, but I still can see no hope that it can scale up to be a competitor, as it has not surfaced at all in my circle if not for the Twitter saga. Even then, this emigration to Mastodon barely splashed beyond the tech and activist circle. As opposed to, e.g. Snapchat when it came out, and Tiktok.

Personally, I think this account will just be another brief attempt of mine. My attention is divided among work, Twitter, Discord, and occasionally Reddit already.

@kemuri Yes, time will tell. Beyond Mastodon I am quite excited with the possibilities that the Fediverse brings via ActivityPub. There are alternatives for platforms like Reddit (join-lemmy.org/), Soundcloud (funkwhale.audio/), Instagram (pixelfed.org/) and more. More than expecting to be part of something big, I want to find places where meaningful interactions are possible and encouraged. Cheers, good luck with the experiment.

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