@Shufei Considering that Arm Macs are totally new and untested... I bet Apple may dump their money into this and flood the market 🤔

@lupyuen Would this be good or bad for *nix on ARM?

@Shufei @lupyuen

pros: more unix tools modified to compile cleanly on arm.

cons: apple’s byzantine code signing system and proprietary os apis.

@zensaiyuki @Shufei @lupyuen hasn't the pi and pine already laid the pavement for unix tools on arm?

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen the latest report from someone trying to use pinebook as a macbook replacement is that it is exactly and only “groundwork”. getting a lot of basic stuff to work is still a shit fight.

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen and, the problem is developers by and large don’t tend to have arm machines as primary. in a perfect world this isn’t a problem. but you know how lazy developers are when it comes to testing.

@zensaiyuki @Shufei @lupyuen if somebody wants to mail me a pinebook pro i wont protest

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen even then, the actual issues devs would need to solve are a bit over my head. the legacy of 30+ years of micro-optimisation for x86.

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen i think the hope is that devs will be more motivated to face that tower of hell if it means getting their fave running on their shiney new macbook.

@zensaiyuki @Shufei @lupyuen i would be curious how many people are going to put up with that, tbh. they have already pissed off the music sector with mandatory code signing obliterating the free VST's.

@zensaiyuki @Shufei @lupyuen i want to say it was Melda who's reaction to Catalina was "maybe it's time we abandon the mac and all go to windows?"

@Shufei @lupyuen @zensaiyuki i mean, i'm sure apple has enough money to force the market to accept ARM devices regardless. there's new developers who can step in i guess.

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen as far as apple has fallen, i think i’d prefer to do anything other than hand money to a company that supports ICE, not to mention the thousand UI atrocities windows commits that make dicking around with linux sound drivers seem tame by comparison.

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen i want to get to a point where i host most of my “stuff” on a self hosted “cloud” and get to the point where it doesn’t matter how old shitty and slow my actual laptops are since it just needs to run a web browser and a ssh shell.

@zensaiyuki @Shufei @lupyuen i don't necessarily think immigration and customs enforcement is an unforgivable sin not everyone has a right to be here, and certainly i am not allowed to just freely live in Switzerland without a permit. And nobody truly expects me to be able to just fly in and stay without a passport or a visa.

I will continue to hate MSFT for their usual culturally destructive shit of OEM obedience enforcement with selective fees to secure a monopoly which for some reason has been left unpunished all this time and their usual embrace extent extinguish crap.

@zensaiyuki @Shufei @lupyuen Apple has their own large share of ethics atrocities (very cozy with CCP, suicide net factories, wasteful design through needlessly soldered components and unrepairable cases.)

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen all corporations are evil. But since Apple makes its money on hardware, not data, you can trust it to be evil in those specific ways. pick your poison.

@zensaiyuki @Shufei @lupyuen they do make money on data (iCloud.)

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen my insiders tell me that is not a profitable side of the business. it’s a loss leader to sell hardware.

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen yikes, I really don’t agree with that, but i’d prefer not to derail this thread. we can talk through another time

@icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen the reasons I liked mac are the amazingly solid and futuristic platform apis. (quartz, cocoa), i loved the dev tools (quartz composer and quicktime especially), and the unix environment, and the relative lack of nagging confirmation boxes. bit by bit apple has wrecked everything i liked about the mac, to the point that i refuse to upgrade to catalina now.

@zensaiyuki @icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen if I get the ARM Mac I'll probably use it mostly to run a Linux VM (should be fast) and to play with Nix ... I'm hesitant to invest in proprietary technologies with a monopolistic source

@zensaiyuki @icedquinn @Shufei @lupyuen I might get an iPhone though, ironically, because I'm not a mobile dev anyway, and I'm getting annoyed of Android Auto suspiciously only having Google products as navigation options; Apple has a bunch for CarPlay including maps.me which is open sourced and uses OSM: https://maps.me/blog/en/mapsme-in-carplay

My second phone will be a PinePhone though. Best of both worlds.