1st Group Read starting Tomorrow 30th of September 2022

What we are reading is Thucydides - The War of the Peloponnesians and the Athenians.

Parts 1 and 2 of Thucydides - The War of the Peloponnesians and the Athenians have been selected after very extensive and impartial polling (participants are encouraged to continue beyond the first two parts p. 160 of the book should they so will it).

About the Author:
Thucydides had served as a general in the Athenian army but after being blamed for a defeat he was exiled from the city. His status as an exile from Athens allowed him to travel freely among the Peloponnesians giving him a view of the war from the perspective of both sides.

His military experience coupled with deep social and political insights allowed him to create this classic in geopolitics about the two world powers of the time slowly being dragged in war. Many parallels can be drawn between these events and the current state of the world today. We have a defensive alliance slowly being turned into an empire led by the strongest member, a democratic faction with the leading power meddling in the member states' internal politics versus an oligarchic one ensuring that their allies are ruled by oligarchies, a clash between a naval and land power, very slow increase in hostilities through proxy wars all over Greece and many more.

Historical accounts had been written before, yet Thucydides was the first to write a consciously "scientific" history - one which sought not just to tell an engaging story, but to understand the causes, motivations and consequences of the events. One thing is certain Thucydides Histories is as much relevant today as it was when it was first written.

Short Introduction to the book:

After fighting off successive Persian invasions, Hellas stood triumphant and sovereign. Front and center stood the twin city states of Athens - decimated in the war with Persia but now ascendent in their dominance of the sea and trade - and Sparta - a hardened military elite ruling their Helots with savage zeal.
Yet unease was not far away, as Athens began to convert the Anti-Persian Delian League into a de facto Athenian Empire, much to the chagrin and fear of Sparta.
The Peloponnesian War was the culmination of that tension and the war between Athens and Sparta has become the prototype of the Thucydides trap - the implicit threat of another superpower and the temptation to seize the initiative in a war for dominance.
This is the war that Thucydides sought to describe.

In 10 days from now, Thursday the 10th of October, we shall have a cozy discussion (hell)thread upon the ideas presented by Thucydides.
Both members of Free Fedi Book Club and outsiders will be welcome to participate and discuss.

To ensure there will be a good and healthy discussion I made a rule, feel free to give me a feedback in this thread. We can change it if people think it prevents people from having good discussion.

1. Try to stay on subject.
2. Respect each other.
3. Don't post unrelated pics such as memes or lewd.
4. Don't let emotions control yourself.

The theme for the discussion will be the parallel between the conflict between Russia and the United States on our time. To make the discussion more fun I will make some questions regarding this which you guys can discuss in the future.

Thank you for your attention.

cc @laurel @7 @sim @leyonhjelm @skells @hrast @Intramuros_ @fluffly@social.handholding.io
Thucydides, Jeremy Mynott - The War of the Peloponnesians and the Athenians-Cambridge University Press (2013).pdf

@7 @Intramuros_ @hrast @laurel @Leyonhjelm @sim @skells @fluffy

@7 @Intramuros_ @Leyonhjelm @fluffy @hrast @laurel @sim @skells anyway since I never did any book club or join one of them, please give me advice on how to run one. Thanks frens.

@MK2boogaloo @7 @laurel @Intramuros_ @skells @sim @fluffy @Leyonhjelm For a book cloob with loose membership, you've done pretty much everything right.

You've introduced the author and the book so that everyone starts on even footing, set up some ground rules and the timeframe, you've declared a minor sign of completion (reading up to p.161 out of 700+ pages) so that even partial readers can fit in, and have described the theme of the meeting and you've implied that you're going to prepare some questions in the meantime to keep the discussion flowing in a case there are discussion blocks, or a specific theme overstays its visit.

This book might be a bit too large for some people to read within a 10day timeframe, however there already some conditions set in to circumvent that.

@hrast @7 @Intramuros_ @Leyonhjelm @fluffy @laurel @sim @skells originally, the timeframe is 2 weeks/14 days but I think maybe it's a bit long for the beginning. If you can't read the whole 161 pages in 10 days it's okay, we are trying to adjust for now. But please try reading at least 10 pages day.

@hrast @7 @Intramuros_ @Leyonhjelm @fluffy @laurel @sim @skells @tarperfume anyway do you guys agree on what I wrote on the Original Post?

@MK2boogaloo @7 @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy @Leyonhjelm I do, but I'm not sure how it would be enforced here.

@sim @7 @Intramuros_ @Leyonhjelm @fluffy @hrast @laurel @skells @tarperfume the rules for discussion? Since the group is still little I think we can do that, I know most of you guys here and you guys aren't the type to make drama and stirring shit up. I do think we need a moderator to keep things balanced during the discussion later.

@MK2boogaloo

>you guys aren't the type to make drama and stirring shit up

lol

Really though, context matters. This isn't something I'd ruin, but I'll troll a woke Mastodon hugfest until I've gathered every scalp

@7 @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @sim @fluffy

@Leyonhjelm @7 @MK2boogaloo @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy Yeah. I was less worried about the people here. More that the threads will be open, I don't think we have the moderation tools to limit bad actors. So I'm not really sure how it would work.

@sim @Leyonhjelm @7 @Intramuros_ @fluffy @hrast @laurel @skells @tarperfume how about changing the thread to follower only or unlisted? We can weed out some people by doing that.

@MK2boogaloo
I think we should see how things go first to allow newcomers to join. maybe we could eventually have a blocklist of users and clear examples of their spamming or trolling that people can use (and choose to add to or remove from if they disagree with it). The people in this thread seem to be capable of not turning into fediblock jannies so it might work out well this time.
@sim @7 @Intramuros_ @Leyonhjelm @fluffy @hrast @laurel @skells @tarperfume

@clayvaulin @7 @Intramuros_ @Leyonhjelm @fluffy @hrast @laurel @sim @skells @tarperfume yes I agree, that's why I choose 10 days. Do you want to join too?

@MK2boogaloo @7 @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy @Leyonhjelm I'm curious, does anyone here take notes when they are reading things like the book selected?

@sim

I tend to make mental note of areas I may want to return to. The opening pages are full of good information and it'd be easier for me to just flip back to it when I need to.

@7 @MK2boogaloo @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy

@Leyonhjelm @7 @MK2boogaloo @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy

Yeah, there is so much information in the opening. I'm still on book one, and it definitely comes across as an interesting opening that sets up the conflict. Even what life was generally like for the islands, some of the differences in culture. But I'm still not entirely sure what I should be paying attention to and how to make notes on that. We've kind of gotten an idea for how it relates to our current conflicts as a theme though. But I will probably end up doing more reading than talking unless I surprise myself.

@sim

Older books like this tend to be dense with information, and I still haven't quite grasped what will be important - I suspect a lot of the nuance is important in ways I'm not catching

@7 @MK2boogaloo @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy

@Leyonhjelm @7 @MK2boogaloo @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy Yeah, I find it impressive when people are able to pick up what nuance will be important for later on. There is a lot of information in this. I wonder if it is good to read the reviews that other people have written on these subjects too.

@sim

To put it in gaming terms, this is why I play a second run of something like Xenoblade games in gameplus mode. The first is for exploring, the second is for seeing what I missed in the story

@7 @MK2boogaloo @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy

@Leyonhjelm @7 @MK2boogaloo @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy I think this is my problem. I rarely like taking a second read through on things. There is always something else that I want to move onto and read. The same happens with games.

@sim

I've only done the game thing recently, and if it's well written there's more than I expected to see in the second run. With books it's a rare book that I read twice.

@7 @MK2boogaloo @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy

@Leyonhjelm @7 @MK2boogaloo @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy

I guess it is easier to play a game again, although I have rarely been so immersed in a game that I want to replay it. On the other hand, some games don't require much thought so it is easier to play them while waiting for something else or to unwind.

@sim @Leyonhjelm @7 @Intramuros_ @clayvaulin @fluffy @hrast @laurel @skells @tarperfume talking about writing stuff, I got an idea. How about we incorporate writing stuff as well? You know reading and writing comes hand in hand.

@MK2boogaloo @7 @clayvaulin @laurel @hrast @Intramuros_ @skells @tarperfume @fluffy @Leyonhjelm You mean, like sharing the notes that we've made while reading if we make any?