@alex @valleyforge I think that's characteristic of most war economies

@allison @alex @valleyforge
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@allison @valleyforge In a civil war tho?

@alex @allison @valleyforge That's fairly true, but not actually fascist. Fascism is a lot more complex ideology, corporativism, strong syndicalism, one strong leader.

The union was very weak politically speaking, Lincoln was close to resign before the civil war happened.

Confederates in other hands, were stupidly individualists and minarchists, even if they supported slavery like most Europeans and UK Colonies, their main difference with the north was mostly government power expansion.

Removing all dumb propaganda, Confederates weren't really pro-slavery... they "had" slavery.

@waltercool @alex @allison @valleyforge > by education *and discipline*
And we all know what that means boys and girls! 🤮

@Hyolobrika @alex @allison @valleyforge We are talking about XIX century, education (read/write) was/still the only way to survive as a free man and able to trade goods, discipline was needed to be accepted as a commoner.

This also applied for indigenous people at American continent, not just US. They weren't slaves, but something close to serfdom.

Frederick Douglass had same opinion btw, free blacks at USA had rough times, they had to prove their freedom with composure and knowledge.

@waltercool @allison @valleyforge Abraham Lincoln. LITERAL fascist. Nevar 4get

@alex @waltercool @allison @valleyforge

the fasces was used by republicans during the 19th century to represent unity against absolutism, it was a left-wing thing until some frustrated socialist took it in another direction which caused him to bald 🤔

@orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge Also, the Fasces at Congress been always in front of everyone eyes lmao.

Just like Hitler fvcked the Chinese swastika, Mussolinni fvcked the Roman fasces symbol

@orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge Is that Joe?

@waltercool @alex @allison @valleyforge

yes behind oboomer

@waltercool @orekix @allison @valleyforge Hillary’s campaign was also “Stronger Together” which is basically a textbook fascist slogan.

My take isn’t necessarily that fascism ruined this symbol. It’s that fascism as a theory isn’t inherently bad. Just every implementation of it so far has been.

@alex @waltercool @allison @valleyforge
>It’s that fascism as a theory isn’t inherently bad.
I would argue the contrary, even theoretically it gets into some pretty crazy stuff, not a fan of war.

@orekix @allison @valleyforge @waltercool I basically don’t believe in “good” and “evil” as a concept. I think every person is trying to do good from their own perspective, and every political strategy is intended to make the world better.

@orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge @waltercool it's not clear to me that the struggle/war stuff is absolutely necessary but I admit that in popular definition it is.

@Moon @alex @allison @valleyforge @waltercool

the struggle between nations is viewed as eternal, there's no reconciliation to be ultimately had globally

@orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge @waltercool Weren't these guys trying to prevent war?

@lain_os @orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge Who is the first one? I don't think Mosley was really a pro-war guy.

@waltercool @lain_os @alex @orekix @valleyforge ezra pound

@waltercool @alex @allison @orekix @valleyforge American poet Ezra Pound who was a strong Fascist collaborator.He embraced Mussolini's Fascism, supported Hitler and wrote stuff for Mosley. Ezra Pound called himself a proud American, but felt America was insane, so he produced propaganda for Mussolini. Go read his radio broadcasts from WWII. He liked Fascism for it's economics. He later fall into insanity and stopped talking completely.

@lain_os @alex @allison @orekix @valleyforge
Oh, thanks for the information, will read about him, didn't knew about Fascism at US at Mussolini rise to power times. At South America only Argentina had a "peaceful fascism" until today. And their fascist economic model still crap you know. At Chile, fascists tried to make a coup, failed, then were killed in public.

By the way, Fascist economics were almost same than FDR after WW2 you know... Corporativism and printing money (Keynesianism).

@orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge I do dislike syndicalism by mandate, so fascism is evil.

Now, Fascism isn't actually a pro-war ideology. Both Italians and Germans were fueled by allies decisions after WW1 (both Hitler/Mussolini fought on the great war).

- Germany were severely punished for WW1, even England disliked it, Windrow Wilson cheated Germany on their armistice agreement (no land will be taken). Ferdinand Foch (French general in chief) predicted WW2. Hitler gained fame for rejecting Versailles when France was politically weak.

- Italians joined WW1 with France/UK ceding land demands they never received later, after an awful performance from Luigi Cadorna and hundred of thousands lives lost for nothing, fueled Mussolini to retake that.

So basically, Fascism was an ideology of hate between rotten Democracies under AngloFrench dominance, and an ideology who rejected internationalism from socialists.

@waltercool @orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge

Chinese? It’s Indian isn’t it?

@moth @waltercool @allison @orekix @valleyforge No it’s from Zelda

@moth @waltercool @alex @orekix @valleyforge Independently reoccurred across a lot of societies

@moth @waltercool @alex @allison @valleyforge

it's mesoamerican!

@waltercool @orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge
It's a republican symbol and always has been. Fascism is an evolved system of governance for a republic.

@orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge @waltercool Does anyone know the origin of the Mussolini funny face btw?

@deadheat @orekix @allison @valleyforge @waltercool That’s not Uncle Fester?

@deadheat @orekix @alex @allison @valleyforge Very likely when he saw their results against Greece

@waltercool @alex @allison @orekix @valleyforge >50,000 animals

No, poor horsies

@alex @valleyforge so what you're saying is...
the south will rise again?

@featherFag @alex @valleyforge Armies on both sides may rise to oppose the union.

@alex @valleyforge On top of that, secession wasn't unconstitutional, or new, IIrc Massachusetts had also left the country around the War of 1812. The Confederacy was well within their right to leave at the time. But the Union still get painted as the good guys for enforcing the closure of an industry that was already in its death throes, even though they didn't really. The living situation didn't fundamentally change for blacks in the US until the Industrial Revolution, they just got a few nickels for their trouble.

Confederate government had problems in its short lifespan but principally, there's no question in my mind that they were the "good guys" insofar as you can be in a war.

@alex @valleyforge This might not be specifically fascistic, but the Union also created a large army by means of enslavement. Commonly known as conscription.

@jeremy @alex I don't know how you can have a problem with conscription if you don't have a problem with taxation. They're basically the same thing

@valleyforge @alex Agreed.

@jeremy @alex lol

@alex @valleyforge

"..whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript