what’s next [after the equality act]? racial identity? can someone identify as a minority [for benefits]? i mean we’ve already seen it happen — David Freiheit

@icedquinn Personally I think we are going about it backwards.. we shouldnt be treating women, or minorities as special groups or give them special treatment (regardless of if they face unique challenges), therefore problem solved, be a minority if you want, who cares.

That isnt that there is no problem or that the problem isnt to be solved. But if we solve the problem for all poor, for example, then by extension we are already helping challenged groups (who are more likely to be poor) as a result.

@freemo in the case of gendered sports its literally because women are, en masse, scientifically, inferior to the point they can't compete.

it's not "men's sports" and "women's sports," they are "sports leagues" and "women's leagues" for the reason of you have potentially 300m citizens in the USA and there are maybe <100 slots to put in the sports league.

the womens leagues are a concession so they can play sports at all.

this is why the whole 'no trans in womens sports' is a big deal.

@icedquinn Seems to me there would be better ways to solve that as well.. Simply have sports be neutral to genders, then do all sports by weight class, problem solved, men will dominate the higher weight class divisions, women will be on equal footing at lower weight classes.. a woman and a man of equal weight, both trained to have low body fat will have equivelant muscle mass and performance.

@freemo i'm not aware of any data that suggests this would work, but you're welcome to try.

@icedquinn @freemo it doesn't, just look at mma or boxing. Muscular and skeletal structures are entirely different

@rat_attakk

do you have any data on mma fighting or something? Obviously they have a different figure but when all your weight is developed into muscle that just means youll have different superior abilities on each side at best not any side being at a greater advantage overall.

@icedquinn

@freemo @icedquinn

Anecdotes from the internet, but it's basically the same reason why women's basketball is a different league: even at the same weight, muscle mass is distributed differently, and the reaction time disparity (legitimate genetic difference) between a man and woman training at that level isn't fair at all
quora.com/In-MMA-fighting-could-women-and-men-compete-equally-assuming-weight-class-limitations-apply

@rat_attakk

Being distributed different just means women will be better at some parts, men better at others, for the same muscle mass.. A woman might jump higher and a man might run faster, therefore women and men would be suited for different positions on a team. But ultimately if their muscle mass is equivalent they should have comparable performance if your considering across the spectrum.

@icedquinn

@freemo @icedquinn that's not the case though, life isn't a videogame.

If your muscles and bodily functions are, I don't know, designed to produce milk and gestate children, you're going to probably lose to the person who's body doesn't have to worry about those things

@freemo @icedquinn men hold every record in every weightlifting, running, swimming, and jumping category. The only areas that women can even compete that I know of deal with lower body/leg movments, like squats

@rat_attakk

So? I never once claimed women are **overall** going to be superior to men in much (only area i know of where they dominate over men is total distance traveled, particularly extreme long-distance hiking over the course of months)...

We are talking about after weight normalization, which none of the records you just mentioned take into account.

@icedquinn

@freemo @icedquinn congratulations, you've just pushed every biological woman out of competitive sports :)

@freemo @icedquinn average bodyfat for a woman: ~25%
average bodyfat for a man: ~15%

medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=8519#:~:text=Body%20fat%20content%20is%2025,to%20convert%20fat%20into%20food.

Even ignoring the difference in upper body strength, men have more muscle mass than women. This is not a problem of diet or training, but a simple fact of normal biological development. This is a major advantage for men.

@rat_attakk

What does the average body fat of the sexes have to do with the discussion? We are not talking about average members of society, so average numbers tell you nothing about the topic we are discussing.

you would have to compare the body fat percentage of the top performing athletes in the same sport and see if there is a significant different to really have any useful data.

I'd imagine you'd find sports where low body fat results in superior performance men and women at the top of their respective leagues would have more similar body fat

@icedquinn

@freemo @rat_attakk i already described how to do this but it was dismissed

@icedquinn

I might have missed that, how to do what? What was dismissed?

@rat_attakk

@freemo @rat_attakk swiss tournaments have every player fight every other player. they're not done often because the amount of rounds is prohibitive outside of spergy chess clubs, but you get a very good idea of where players stand in comparison to one another.

then you analyze where the men and women rank to find where the distribution of bio male and bio females tend to be.

@icedquinn

Is that suppose to be a solution to calculating a distribution (in that sense I'd agree it works) or how to create multi-sex teams? in which case im not sure how it solves the problem as you would likely see men out ranking women without a normalization factor.

@rat_attakk