@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew There isn't any part of the video that, say, shows that he was strangled rather than coded because of an overdose. It assumes the causes of certain actions, as well as the intent behind them.

@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

I never claimed why he died, it isnt relevant, I said he was strangled, not that he died due to be strangled... Even if he died because of the medications, that fact that cauvin continued to strangle him 3 minutes after his fellow officer told him that Floyd's heart stopped stil tells me he intended the man dead. Even if he didnt kill him he sure as hell made sure he stayed dead and refused to let others help resuscitate him. So he is still guilty even if what you say is true, not is what you say in contrast to anything i said.

@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @coolboymew I think it might be worth considering other reasons why Chauvin might have been holding him down, and wanted to keep him down. Putting yourself in other people's shoes is very important when analyzing cases like these.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live

I never said hold him down was wrong.. I said once he was informed by someone trained in taking a pulse and giving CPR that the man's heart stopped then there was no justification of any kind fo rhim sitting on the man and refusing a fllow cop from delivering CPR.

What do you feel justifies sitting on a mans chest that doesnt have a heart beat and blocking others from giving CPR?

@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins I think there could have been fear that he would revive while not being held down, struggle, harm Chauvin and the medical professional, and potentially flee

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live

If that were true then why didnt he take the 5 seconds it takes to put leg and hand cuffs on him then get off? That would alleviate all his feas of a dead guy coming ack to life and running away, and being unconscious would have been trivial to do.

So considering he coud have easily addressed all those concerns your argument basically boils dow to "He was scared he might come back to life"... in other words, wanted him dead and to stay dead.

@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Read what I wrote.

Hint: people in fear don’t take chances.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live

Yes, and not sure how you can be scared of someone whose heart isnt beating. That excuse only holds any water up until his heart stopped, after that it ceases to be a valid excuse.

@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins You should watch some video of police dealing with people on drugs.

@sickburnbro

Seen quit a few. I have not objected to anything they did while he was alive and resisting arrest (even though he never took a swing or attacked the officers I still gave them the benefit of the doubt). But again once your told a man's heart has stopped there is no excuse for his actions.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Ok so what if he got off when he was informed, would he suddenly be not guilty in your eyes?

@Weedle

Yes he would have been not guilty if he had acted that way.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Well then that makes no sense, if he was the cause of death, it wouldn't matter if he got off him or not.

@Weedle

Because when we talk about things like murder, especially 2nd degree murder, intent matters.

The case was not about if he caused the death, it is about if he intended to cause death or if death was due to negligence on his part. If he caused the death and that deathw as neither due to negligence or intent then he wasnt guilty of the charges at hand.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Yes, I understand that, but the way you just described it he had no hand in the death, he was just on top of him when he died. Thus not guilty of 2nd degree murder or any murder.

@Weedle

When did I say he had no hand in his death, you just pulled that out of thin air.. You asked me if he got off him when his heart stopped if he should still be guilty, I said no.. I said nothing about if he had a hand in his death or not.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Ok, how did he cause his death, it certainly wasnt the way he was holding him down.

@Weedle

"It certainly wasnt the way he was holding him down"... both autopsy reports and several doctors all disagree with you there.

Quote from one autopsy examiner:

"died as a result of mechanical asphyxiation"

Quote from the other autopsy examiner:

"cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Ok, so youre contradicting yourself, cause should still be guilty even if he got off of him after he lost a pulse, since youre running with these examiner claims.

@Weedle

No you just arent paying attention. As I already covered simply killing someone is not enough to be charged with 2nd degree murder, for that you must show intent among other things.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Youve said that, but youve also just stated that the knee on the neck was the cause of death, so regardless of how long he was there he would be guilty, no?

@Weedle

No because the knee on the kneck could be excused away as neccesary when the man was alive in order to protect his own life (this is questionable but at least plausable).. So can be seen as self-defense. Once it (perhaps accidentally) caused the man to die the self-defense excuse evaporates, there is no need to maintain the position for self defense at that point and only serves the purpose of making sure the man dies and is not revived, so at that point it demonstrates the death wasnt accidental but purposeful.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Why would he need to maintain the position if he was informed that the man was dead though? Furthermore you are assuming that there is a chance he could be revived. Once the body was loaded (since no CPR was attempted on scene by responders) we can assume that something was attempted. Since this did not revive Floyd I dont see how this would have made a difference how long the cop was on top of him.

@Weedle

> Why would he need to maintain the position if he was informed that the man was dead though?

He wouldnt, thats the point, unless his intent was for the man to die there is no reason to not only sit on the mans chest after being informed his heart stopped but to refuse to let his fellow officer help him when his fellow officer asked him to get off so he could tend to him.

> Furthermore you are assuming that there is a chance he could be revived. Once the body was loaded (since no CPR was attempted on scene by responders) we can assume that something was attempted. Since this did not revive Floyd I dont see how this would have made a difference how long the cop was on top of him.

It makes a **huge** difference, performing CPR shortly after the heart stopped (as the fellow officer was trying to do) may very well have saved his life. When a heart stops seconds/minutes count.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins

Two points:

So why did he want to kill him? Was his reasoning for desiring to kill Floyd ever established, or are we just assuming that he is evil for evil's sake?

If seconds count, why was CPR not preformed at the scene?

@Weedle

> So why did he want to kill him?

The most reasonable answer is because cops commonly go on a power trip and when this power is challenged (such as the cases of resisting arrest) they tend to get vengeful, a pattern I've personally witnessed several times. But this is just speculation, while it is very clear he intended the man to die we can only guess as to the multitude of murders.

> why was CPR not preformed at the scene?

We already covered this, because chauvin refused to let people perform CPR. As I already stated a fellow police officer on the scene when he detected no pulse immediately asked chauvin to get off so he could tend to Floyd, and this would have likely entailed CPR. Chauvin however refused his fellow officers request to try to care for Floyd and instead continued to sit on top of him preventing others from caring for him.

This is the very reason he is guilty as sin, he blocked his fellow officers active attempts to care for Floyd.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @Weedle @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins So you basically just think Chauvin is a bad guy and thus is guilty because of that.

Everyone, welcome to justice in 2021. I hope you don't make anyone dislike you.

@sickburnbro

Nope, you a little retarded or something.. I said the exact opposite... He clearly demonstrated he wanted the man dead and thus is a bad guy. What makes him bad is speculation and less relevant.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @sickburnbro @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins

Because when we talk about things like murder, especially 2nd degree murder, intent matters.

This is the key for me. Intent that #DerekChauvin meant to kill #GeorgeFloyd has never been proven, only assumed.

@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live

and I'd say that physically preventing fellow officers from trying to save his life after he is informed his heart stopped clearly shows the intent for Floyd to be dead. The only explanation you gave was fear, but as i said there is no reason that one would be scared of a man whos heart is known not to be beating.

@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew Say what you like man, your word is not evidence.

The only explanation you gave was fear, but as i said there is no reason that one would be scared of a man whos heart is known not to be beating.

You not understanding why someone would be afraid doesn’t mean the fear doesn’t exist.

@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

By that logic I can go around shooting random black people and not be charged with murder simply because i have an irrational fear of black men.

@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew

@freemo @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins @coolboymew Difference here is, Chauvin's fear is a lot more rational. So the two scenarios don't really line up at all.

@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

Not in the least, at no point during the encounter was chauvin assaulted or did Floyd at any point attempt to kill chauvin.. he struggled against and resisted arrest but didnt even take a swing at officers. So no, nothing rational about it.

@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew

@freemo @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins @coolboymew C'mon man, don't pretend like you have to understand his actions in order for him to be innocent. At no point did he signal that he wanted Chauvin to die either, yet you keep making this baseless claim.

Besides, I'm not saying he was in fear for his life, but rather that he was probably afraid that he would get away.

"bUt He KnEeLeD oN HiS nEcK" yeah yeah, that's how he was holding him down buddy. The whole point was to keep him from getting away, it's kinda the job for the police to keep criminals from running loose in the general public.

@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

I dont know how many times i have to repeat this but when a man's heart stops beating and you forcably prevent people from reviving him then yes, his actions show very clear intent he wants him dead. Him being scared Chauvin might get away, or fear of anything else, doesnt change the fact that he wanted him dead, at best it just explains why he wanted him dead.

@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew

@freemo @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins @coolboymew Say it again, it doesn't make it evidence. Remember, his goal is to keep him from escaping. People can revive and escape. Chauvin, like most people, understood this, so he held him down to make sure that he did not get away. Stop pretending that this was at least a possible motive for holding him down.

@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world

You act like im just saying this shit.. i am literally describing the actions caught on tape and yes that is evidence.

I am claiming that the evidence caught on tape shows very clear intent.. a Person does not need to state their intent for one to infer intent from their actions. Thats not how the law works, nor should it. If my actions demonstrate my intent then that is enough, and that is the case here.

@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew