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@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live
If that were true then why didnt he take the 5 seconds it takes to put leg and hand cuffs on him then get off? That would alleviate all his feas of a dead guy coming ack to life and running away, and being unconscious would have been trivial to do.
So considering he coud have easily addressed all those concerns your argument basically boils dow to "He was scared he might come back to life"... in other words, wanted him dead and to stay dead.
@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
@freemo @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Read what I wrote.
Hint: people in fear don’t take chances.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live
Yes, and not sure how you can be scared of someone whose heart isnt beating. That excuse only holds any water up until his heart stopped, after that it ceases to be a valid excuse.
@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Seen quit a few. I have not objected to anything they did while he was alive and resisting arrest (even though he never took a swing or attacked the officers I still gave them the benefit of the doubt). But again once your told a man's heart has stopped there is no excuse for his actions.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Yes he would have been not guilty if he had acted that way.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Because when we talk about things like murder, especially 2nd degree murder, intent matters.
The case was not about if he caused the death, it is about if he intended to cause death or if death was due to negligence on his part. If he caused the death and that deathw as neither due to negligence or intent then he wasnt guilty of the charges at hand.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
When did I say he had no hand in his death, you just pulled that out of thin air.. You asked me if he got off him when his heart stopped if he should still be guilty, I said no.. I said nothing about if he had a hand in his death or not.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
"It certainly wasnt the way he was holding him down"... both autopsy reports and several doctors all disagree with you there.
Quote from one autopsy examiner:
"died as a result of mechanical asphyxiation"
Quote from the other autopsy examiner:
"cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
No you just arent paying attention. As I already covered simply killing someone is not enough to be charged with 2nd degree murder, for that you must show intent among other things.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
No because the knee on the kneck could be excused away as neccesary when the man was alive in order to protect his own life (this is questionable but at least plausable).. So can be seen as self-defense. Once it (perhaps accidentally) caused the man to die the self-defense excuse evaporates, there is no need to maintain the position for self defense at that point and only serves the purpose of making sure the man dies and is not revived, so at that point it demonstrates the death wasnt accidental but purposeful.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
> Why would he need to maintain the position if he was informed that the man was dead though?
He wouldnt, thats the point, unless his intent was for the man to die there is no reason to not only sit on the mans chest after being informed his heart stopped but to refuse to let his fellow officer help him when his fellow officer asked him to get off so he could tend to him.
> Furthermore you are assuming that there is a chance he could be revived. Once the body was loaded (since no CPR was attempted on scene by responders) we can assume that something was attempted. Since this did not revive Floyd I dont see how this would have made a difference how long the cop was on top of him.
It makes a **huge** difference, performing CPR shortly after the heart stopped (as the fellow officer was trying to do) may very well have saved his life. When a heart stops seconds/minutes count.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Two points:
So why did he want to kill him? Was his reasoning for desiring to kill Floyd ever established, or are we just assuming that he is evil for evil's sake?
If seconds count, why was CPR not preformed at the scene?
> So why did he want to kill him?
The most reasonable answer is because cops commonly go on a power trip and when this power is challenged (such as the cases of resisting arrest) they tend to get vengeful, a pattern I've personally witnessed several times. But this is just speculation, while it is very clear he intended the man to die we can only guess as to the multitude of murders.
> why was CPR not preformed at the scene?
We already covered this, because chauvin refused to let people perform CPR. As I already stated a fellow police officer on the scene when he detected no pulse immediately asked chauvin to get off so he could tend to Floyd, and this would have likely entailed CPR. Chauvin however refused his fellow officers request to try to care for Floyd and instead continued to sit on top of him preventing others from caring for him.
This is the very reason he is guilty as sin, he blocked his fellow officers active attempts to care for Floyd.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Everyone, welcome to justice in 2021. I hope you don't make anyone dislike you.
Nope, you a little retarded or something.. I said the exact opposite... He clearly demonstrated he wanted the man dead and thus is a bad guy. What makes him bad is speculation and less relevant.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
No I said that is very common and the most likely among many possible motives.. implying that I can not be certain of the motive though it is very clear the murder was intentional.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
So it was intentional, you just dont know what the intention was
No not what i said, its clear the intent was to have him dead.. the motivation behind that intent isnt obvious as he never made that clear.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
@freemo @Weedle @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew
its clear the intent was to have him dead
Based on what evidence? No one has presented clear evidence that he wanted him dead and that was the only possible intent. All I’ve seen are assumptions.
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Based on the fact that once his heart stop beating he physically prevented fellow officers from saving him despite them trying to.. physically blocking people from trying to save a man who you know his heart has stopped shows clear intent you want the man dead.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
So you admit they wanted him dead and to remain dead on the off chance he might hurt someone if his life was saved.. bearing in mind at no point during the encounter did he attack a police officer, he resisted arrest but never actively assaulted an officers according to eye witnesses.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Being afraid of what someone **might** do is no excuse for ensuring a person dies and stays dead. Least of all from a police officer.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
He was informed that his heart wasnt beating.. so "maintining the submission" servers no purpose once he knew that other than to ensure the man remained dead.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Even if that completely absurd line of reasoning that a deadman will rise from the grave completely on his own and run away were true or reasonable it doesnt excuse the actions... We are talking about an arrest over spending some forged money. Floyd was at no point violent nor was the arrest over anything particularly serious. So caring more about him getting away than him surviving is not reasonable regardless.
That said presuming Chauvin could think such an absurd thing in the first place seems very unlikely, chauvin knows people who's heart isnt beating wont just randomly restart and they will be at full strength.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
@freemo @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins @coolboymew
that a deadman will rise from the grave completely on his own and run away were true or reasonable it doesnt excuse the actions
Nah, it definitely excuses the actions. It makes them reasonable measures to prevent, well, Floyd from running away.
Floyd was at no point violent
He was fairly violent, it was shown in the video. It’s available on the internet, you can check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSwqp5fdIw
nor was the arrest over anything particularly serious
No, the arrest wasn’t, but the guy most certainly was. I believe they ran a check on who he was beforehand, so they had a good idea on who they were dealing with.
So caring more about him getting away than him surviving is not reasonable regardless
That might be your point of view, but it doesn’t make it less valid if that’s what was going through Chauvin’s mind.
That said presuming Chauvin could think such an absurd thing in the first place seems very unlikely, chauvin knows people who’s heart isnt beating wont just randomly restart and they will be at full strength.
Well then he knows more about hearts than you, I guess, because he (as well as everyone in this thread other than you, apparently) knows that it is indeed possible for someone’s heart to start beating after it stops beating. And this assumes that when they could not read a pulse, his heart was not beating. And furthermore, Chauvin also likely recognized that Floyd likely didn’t need to be at “full strength” in order to get away.
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
I've seen the videos, but if you think i missed soemthing please show a video where Floyd actively assaulted an officer (rather than just struggled to get away).
There is a few seconds after someones heart stops it can reset,past that it is impossible... Anyone else int he thread claiming otherwise doesnt have a clue what their talking about. A 5 second internet search would tell you that, its not hard knowledge to confirm.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
I never said it was "ok" .. but it isnt violence against an officer.. he made no attempt to harm anyone and made no threat to anyones life verbally or physically.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
@freemo @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins @coolboymew
just struggled to get away
I mean if you think struggling is okay, say so, but don’t pretend like that’s not violence.
“There was a struggle”
“Ah! Sounds like peace to me!”