@Thebratdragon Not just Tories. See the comment from @christineburns.

@hesgen @christineburns I meant to keep getting contracts, the priginal was tory/libdem approved

@Thebratdragon @christineburns As Christine notes, firms such as Fujitsu are deeply embedded in public sector procurement, and successive governments have not seen fit to disrupt a system that just about functions.

@hesgen @christineburns so that the same people get the tenders time and time again, DESPITE their performance on previous ones.

@christineburns Indeed, Christine.

@christineburns @hesgen hmm. Hardware was being phased out by ICL late 80s, they did make PCs and a failure OPD/BT Tonto. Main frame used Fujitsu core. The parent company STC was bought by Canadian NT ( Nortel Networks) who then sold off chunks of the group. Fujitsu got a systems company that was getting out of hardware. I worked for ICL and Nortel at the time. Nortel went into voluntary liquidation in 2008.

@christineburns @hesgen as an aside a guy called Roger Wood was sales director UK then European director for Nortel. After Nortel closed via an ex STC guy I believe he became CEO of Automoble Association and when he didn’t get the table he wanted at a West End restaurant told the AA restaurant guide editor to downgrade the restaurant. The editor refused and “resigned” and anyone who has worked for Roger will know he had the managerial approach of Attila the Hun.

@JohnLoader6 @hesgen I remember that name but I think he was after my time at ICL

@christineburns @hesgen You would have heard of PeterCropper’s wife, Peter IT Director Nortel Europe, Steve.

@hesgen @JohnLoader6 The ICL PC was originally an 8085 CP/M Rair Black Box with a respray. The next gen was a 8086 box that ran Concurrent CP/M 86 — not IBM compatible (I was tech director of a company that sold them). The DRS300 was similarly based on Concurrent CP/M — not that you could really call that a PC. IBM compatible architecture capable of running off the shelf apps didn’t come until just before the takeover.

@JohnLoader6 @hesgen On the mainframe side, the second generation of 29xx VME machines were microcoded (2970/80 were hardwired logic) so VME lent itself to emulated running as a VM under Unix or to running Unix as a VM under VME, just as IBM moved to running 1960/70 operating systems on other hardware by emulation. So 3900 systems had a migration path Fujitsu hardware, which I think sealed the logic of the takeover. They didn’t have to inherit the legacy stuff to keep the base

@hesgen @JohnLoader6 System 25 was a microcoded replacement of System 10 — business transaction system inherited from Singer, but which cannibalised 2903/4 and ME29 sales with a rival solution that didn’t fit with anything else. Mitel PABXs had no integration story. The 8800 word processor was a government compelled acquisition from another unsuccessful enterprise and clashed with the ICL-developed word processor on 7501. The DRS 40/50 was developed 3000 miles away by ex Singer

@hesgen @JohnLoader6 engineers who’d worked on the 1500 and came to market with barely working mainframe comms. The IBM protocols worked long before CO1/2/3. In fact CO3 was still not working reliably when I left ICL. The 9500 point of sale systems were overengineered to the point of farce.

@hesgen @JohnLoader6 A funny story. I had an OPD on trial for my company in 1983 - compatible with nothing except the phone. I left it at home on a table in the lounge one day and there was a break-in. The thieves took other tech but left the OPD untouched. I kind of admired their taste.

@christineburns @hesgen I have somewhere a Sinclair cartridge that the OPD used for storage. Horrible thing.

@christineburns @hesgen but nobody remembers the Mitsubishi Apricot a very similar device but used industry standard software.

@JohnLoader6 @christineburns

Ahem!

@christineburns @hesgen don’t know 1500. Do know 2900 and I think (OAP memory) 3900. Over specification was horrendous. Take office sited machines. Every product designer seemed to specify different mains cable length. The OPD had to use non standard office applications and needed add on modules that made the price too high. BT was going to sue having rebadged it as Tonto. BT forced to buy some ICL machines for its CSS system which then needed a complete rewrite from IBM.

@christineburns @hesgen BT developed its own operating system for many systems so they could allow on line input. CO3 sticks in my mind but could be wrong. And billing ran on Leo’s in the 70s.

@christineburns @hesgen word processing developed. BT wanted automated Directory Enquiries so STC formed an alliance with a US company to sell DAS (successfully). The arrangement with the owners fell through so STC bought the company and with it came Officepower, word processing, spreadsheets and slides. it wasn’t bad but other companies had moved past it. Oddly NT had its own offering, Vienna, and didn’t like being reminded that Officepower was American

@christineburns @hesgen If the 8800 was that word processor suitable for a desk it was bought in from another company and for its time was very good if you like floppy disks. ICL sold it to BT who resprayed the boxes grey and fiddled with the software. I helped evaluate for BT which system we would buy and the ICL version was better than the BT “upgrade”. Still in contact with my BT’s General Manager’s PA who did tests. She loved it as her boss was always changing stuff.

@JohnLoader6 That’s the one. It was originally designed by Logica and came to ICL in a panic rescue move. The main thing ICL did was change the name and the colour of the boxes. We had one in the mid eighties, used for producing business proposals, which it did really well — printing clearly on our embossed stationery. It was apparently ICL’s most popular product — helped greatly by the fact that ICL had nothing to do with its design. I believe BT called their version Merlin.

@christineburns ,l remember now. Merlin. When we went for BSI 5950 quality award in ICL we dug out piles of floppies from each secretary and asked what was on each. Given the answers we felt the best thing was to erase them . My colleagues in other bits of BT were convinced Wordstar with an extra bit of keyboard for all the obscure commands was the solution but once you saw the 8800 against that it was no contest