Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron@social.cleverlibre.org

@oatmeal You mean you sponsored the biggest instance on Mastodon, not Mastodon as a whole.

@JKuznicki Sure. How often do you see people fleeing one state for another to avoid government persecution? (especially before Dobbs)

And how much of that do you think is attributable to the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

@JKuznicki Because you're artificially limiting the subject matter of the conversation to a foreign country to make a nonsensical point.

@JKuznicki Try reading again, because you failed to comprehend.

@JKuznicki Of course not. My argument is that LGBT orgs and protesters in Saudi Arabia should be fighting for their civil rights, not fighting for the right to leave. In most cases, people exercise that right whether or not it's condoned by a government.

@JKuznicki And in doing so, you forsake all those who chose to stay and fight, with nary a though.

@JKuznicki You're rapidly approaching the line of arguing in bad faith.

I never said you opposed civil rights legislation.
I never said I opposed anyone fleeing poor governance.
Those were regular quotes (I was quoting you!), not scare quotes.

Please stop arguing with imaginary people.

@JKuznicki Things that help in the near term are rarely the best option overall.

@JKuznicki "Why do you get to place your priorities above those of the persecuted?"

You're doing this every bit as much as I am by saying that exit rights are more important than civil rights.

@JKuznicki Gee, what's the difference between today and 1850s New York? Something that maybe could be promoting diversity? Oh, wait, that's right, civil rights legislation.
Without that, your "racial mixing" would still be outlawed by localities.

@JKuznicki ...and then the Americans forced them to live in segregated neighborhoods and started putting up signs about not hiring the Irish.

Your claim that "people will mix themselves up if they're allowed to" is nonsense.

@JKuznicki You are aware people are capable of doing more than one thing at a time right?
Just because one issue should be prioritized doesn't mean another must be ignored entirely.

But, ultimately, yes, if they have *neither* civil rights nor the right to leave, I do think civil rights should be the focus, because it would do more good in the long run.

@JKuznicki What?!? Are you kidding me? You look back at history and think "yeah, different peoples were good at getting along"? You and I must have read *very* different history books.

@JKuznicki You're imagining that I said that.

@JKuznicki I never said mass migration was segregation.

I said segregation is the inevitable end of relying *only* on the right to exit to solve civil rights.

@JKuznicki While I don't deny the importance of their right to exit, I'd argue that their right to exist in the location of their choosing without persecution is more important.

@JKuznicki Also, I'd note that Carlson's objection seems to be diversity period, not specifically un-segregated diversity.

@JKuznicki Sure, but that message plays best to the most segregated audience, because those of us who aren't segregated see through it easily, and see the benefits of diversity.