@ins0mniak @bonifartius @11112011 @7 @cyberspook @helene Yeah, I do the same, except Thinkpads. Apparently they stopped making good Thinkpads, though.

@p @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene I've been using Lenovo lappys because they play supe nice with *nix and they're uber cheap.

Dude...on those puppies you can straight put the onboard wifi into monitor mode. Hacker boner right there.

@p @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene My current rig is a lenovo tablet with userland running alpine.

I have my boards set for AP and I use the tablet to log into that. I mean, that's basiclly the computer setup I prefer at this point. I just want a terminal you know?

I've been using a hardkernel board as an emulator so I can play stuff like Wipeout and Parasite Eve, as well as play anime and movies that I absolutely did not steal from torrent.

@ins0mniak @7 @11112011 @p @helene @cyberspook

everything after x220 is garbage compared to earlier thinkpads. as long as they have have 3 buttons and a trackpoint, they'll be superior though. even the new shitty thin plastic ones.

@bonifartius @7 @11112011 @p @helene @cyberspook Yeah I def agree with you.

Man, thinkpads, especially when big blue was making them were great.

@ins0mniak @7 @11112011 @p @helene @cyberspook

> Man, thinkpads, especially when big blue was making them were great.

i still have one of those here.. i should revive it. a thinkpad in its 4:3 glory.

newer thinkpads have _flexing_ issues.

FLEXING. THINKPADS.

@bonifartius @7 @11112011 @p @helene @cyberspook Man, when I was kid I used to look at computer shopper like porn, lol

I wanted one so bad, but back in the day laptops ran $3-5,000.

@ins0mniak @7 @11112011 @p @helene @cyberspook
yeah, having my own laptop at somewhere around 16 was really an event for me, even without it having wifi (or my family having an access point.. :D)

@bonifartius @7 @11112011 @p @helene @cyberspook My first computer was an HP pavilion. Ran windows 98, lol

When I first got it I prob stayed up for three days straight messing with it. I ran out at like 11pm to snag a voodoo graphics card so I could rock Wing Commander Prophesy and Quake 2.

@ins0mniak @bonifartius @11112011 @7 @cyberspook @helene
Manolis Angelopoulos - MISIRLOU + Translate + תרגום [9BZ4mobFCgo].webm

@bonifartius @ins0mniak @7 @11112011 @helene @cyberspook Even the x220 is garbage compared to the T60.

@p @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook even T60 is garbage when compared to Atari Portfolio

@ins0mniak @11112011 @p @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook I’m just getting started with p9, but I picked up a refurb thinkcentre and I have a convertible lenovo thinkpad that is kind of my general terminal/drawterm machine.

@7 @11112011 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene @p Nice, most of the time if I'm using plan9 I just draterm into it.

It's comfy like that, I run it on an older raspi 3. You just don't need a lot of juice to run it, It's like the anti-bloat system.

@ins0mniak @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene Ah, I can't cope without a reasonable keyboard, that's my problem. I guess I gotta just buy x220s until there are no more x220s to be found.

@p @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene I feel that.

Man, I feel like I'm good at making things work. Like, I'll pick up shit at goodwill. Stuff people think is junk.

@cyberspook @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @7 @p
that does work, and i did that a while ago. mapping the middle button to a thumb button is ok, but chording in acme feels totally weird then :)

@bonifartius
Why use a mouse even? Vim keys.
@11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @7 @p

@cyberspook @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @7 @p
i never got the keyboard maximalism. i'm not faster by just using the keyboard and not the mouse. it's just that common mouse usage idioms are shitty. see acme for how to implement good mouse idioms.

@bonifartius
Keyboard will always provide more functions than a mere mouse. And the issue with using the keyboard is that the keybinds are often shit. Most of the keys need to be on the home row and not require modifiers (like in Vim). Plus, you frequently type on your PC anyway so it makes sense to always use a keyboard instead of switching input methods. And combining the mouse with keybinds is indeed retarded, might as well use only the mouse. If you do not optimize your keybinds and maximize your keyboard usage instead of being constantly reliant on your mouse then it’s completely pointless. Get a tiling VM for starters, stacking VMs aren’t meant for keyboards, like, at all. Switch to Dvorak, change your keybinds. It’s a completely different paradigm so it’s not even a fair comparison because people think that using keyboard shortcuts is about using keyboard shortcuts in combination with the mouse.
@11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @7 @p

@cyberspook
by any chance, are you an arch or openbsd user?

joke aside: been there, done that. keyboard maxxing is productivity larp. mouse is the right tool for some things. i don't need faster. i need "i don't want to think", not learning dvorak or more of idiosyncratic vim or whatever. i'm back to floating wm with key and mouse binds to tile stuff.

use acme, it's command language and mouse chording for a while. just try it. it's not retarded but designed and used by some of the smartest unix people. they knew in the 80s that the terminal of olden days should be replaced and just did that in plan9.

@11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @7 @p

@bonifartius
Learning Dvorak for ergonomics is still a must anyway, you cannot escape Dvorak.
@11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @7 @p

@cyberspook the only dvorak i need is john xD @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @7 @p

@cyberspook @bonifartius @11112011 @7 @helene @ins0mniak I have escaped Dvorak for decades and will continue to dunk on it for being a "well actually" keyboard layout.

@p @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook but have you tried colemak?

@p @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene @ins0mniak and then i read down the timeline and realized my folly.

@slash @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene @ins0mniak No, but I ran the numbers a while back: https://freespeechextremist.com/notice/9zqYuSYuv55ofOUCMC

@slash
Dvorak, unlike Colemak, is an international keyboard, it being English-specific is a misconception. Unlike Colemak, Dvorak splits the keyboard into vowels and consonants so in any language you are guaranteed to have an equal amount of stress on both hands and a rhythmic right-left-right-left kind of typing. Colemak has no such feature. When it comes to keybinds, both scatter them around the keyboard anyway though how much the keybind placements differ from that of QWERTY is debatable. HJKL will definitely get scattered. In Dvorak they'll be split between two hands, in Colemak they will be scattered fuck knows how.
@7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius

@lanodan @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene @ins0mniak

> also got left-ctrl on caps lock for 10+ years.

I used to remap but switched to the Type 6 some time near 2006 (essentially switched as soon as I found out that they had a USB model), and then the Type 7 when that came out. Then the Oracle dragon swallowed the and not enough people banged drums to make it come back so I had to switch to the HHKB. (Control is still left of A, half-size return key, backspace where most people put backslash, escape where most people put backtick, etc.) I started on that because of vi but the Unix layout is better for everything.

@cyberspook @bonifartius @11112011 @7 @helene @ins0mniak

> Why use a mouse even? Vim keys.

The mouse is a fine input device.

You have been abused by evil GUIs that use the mouse wrong. I was once like you. I thought the height of HCI had been reached with vim+screen+ctags+urxvt. I spent years and years being abused by the terminal emulator that pretended to be a DEC vt100, which was itself pretending to be an ASR-33 teletype, because it hurt me less often than a desktop environment. But what if the mouse could be good?

@p
Why does it have to be the mouse? An inherently unergonomic device. Why is the mouse forced on us? The touchscreen was a new input method and it introduced a completely different way of interacting with a computer. With touch gestures the navigation is seemless and smooth. So why do we have to choose either keyboard or mouse? I say: choose whatever is best for the given paradigm. If it's stacking, use the mouse. If it's tiling, use the keyboard. If it's a mobile GUI, use the touchscreen.
@7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius

@p
Plan9 may be utilizing the mouse well but the mouse navigation in general feels different, it’s an entirely different way to look at things. It’s an entirely different way to organize your workflow. Tiling is out of the question so the possible benefits of tiling like easier window management are also out of the question. You gain in one area, you lose in another.
@11112011 @7 @bonifartius @helene @ins0mniak

@cyberspook @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @helene @ins0mniak

> Why does it have to be the mouse?

That's the way this interface works. The question was about three-button mice because that UI was designed around three-button mice; commodity hardware drives the software.

> An inherently unergonomic device.



> The touchscreen was a new input method and it introduced a completely different way of interacting with a computer.

I have yet to see a touchscreen interface that works nicely. In any case, your hands will obscure the viewing area. Touchscreens are nicer for some things, but if there's an interface built around a mouse, you'll generally have a better time using it with a mouse.

> I say: choose whatever is best for the given paradigm.

That is why, if you looked at the thread, the paradigm was set and what is nice to use as hardware was the question.

> If it's stacking, use the mouse. If it's tiling, use the keyboard. If it's a mobile GUI, use the touchscreen.

acme is a tiling UI but it makes good use of the mouse.

@p
> I have yet to see a touchscreen interface that works nicely.

i think sailfish os / maemo is pretty nice. best use of mobile touchscreen i've seen, precisely because you don't have to target stuff with your fingers. most operations are some kind of swiping motion.

everywhere else touchscreen doesn't make sense, the displays are too large for that. it's never comfortable. i don't want to move my whole arm to do stuff.

@7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @cyberspook

@bonifartius @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @cyberspook I haven't used Sailfish but I did use Maemo on the N900 and it was pretty comfortable.

@bonifartius

everywhere else touchscreen doesn’t make sense, the displays are too large for that. it’s never comfortable. i don’t want to move my whole arm to do stuff.

Windows 8’s interface was pretty nice for tablets, you didn’t need to move your arm much to do stuff, it was very gesture-heavy. Compared to it Win10 is a joke and an embarassment, the tablet mode in it is a terribly implemented afterthought that lack many features and looks like a castrated desktop mode as opposed to Win8’s desktop mode looking like a castrated tablet mode.
@p @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene

@p

I have yet to see a touchscreen interface that works nicely.

And you won’t. Because it’s a very niche thing. The only companies that did touch controls well are Microsoft (Windows 8 only), OnePlus, Jolla and Samsung. That’s it. Others are complete and utter garbage. And most of the on-screen keyboards other than MessagEase are also a complete garbage, you can’t speedtype on them, it’s hard to type on a fucking QWERTY keyboard. QWERTY keyboards weren’t designed for touchscreen whatsoever, you need to feel where the home row is to type decently. And when it comes to apps, most of them have most of the controls at the top, which is a legacy feature back from the time where devices were smaller.
@7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius

@cyberspook @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius

It's a Drawterm, not a Typeterm.

@dubh
Use a tablet.
@7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius

@cyberspook @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius


This man has no snarf.

I couldn't very easily use mouse chords with a touch screen.

@dubh
Drawing with a mouse is like drawing with a dick.
@7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius

@cyberspook @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius

ykinmk.

@dubh @cyberspook @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @helene @ins0mniak
nosnarf.jpg

@p @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook mouse is nice, but pour one out for the full size trackball, which is super comfortable for all sorts of things that a mouse makes slightly more annoying and just underrated.

@slash i have heard many good things about trackballs, maybe i should get one at some point :D @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @cyberspook

@bonifartius @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @cyberspook mice won out in the long run because for certain precision tasks they are ideal, but i’ve never had more fun playing arkham asylum than when I hooked up my kensington slimblade trackball, that counter system felt totally natural rolling on a trackball.

@slash @11112011 @7 @bonifartius @cyberspook @helene @ins0mniak I have never been able to get used to them, and nowadays the good trackballs are all $200 or something. I keep thinking I'll switch at some point. IBM's nipple mouse is still really nice but the lateral stress makes my index finger a little sore if I use it all day.

@p @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook yeah nowadays the best bet is probably ebay, they go pretty reasonable second hand since there’s so little lasting demand for them.

@p @7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook
forget about the mouse, light pen, thats the future.