bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 @bonifartius@social.cleverlibre.org

@blacklight
> [...] and, even if I hate Google and Microsoft, I don't want to create such barriers for users.

that's the wrong line of thought imo. it just normalizes that it's ok to use these things which are the equivalent to shitting in the streets ignoring everyone who says that that's not ok. gmail etc. are big spammers themselves. just because everyone you know is shitting in the streets doesn't make it ok.

it's appeasing to people who don't care about these things. that's completely fine choice for them, but _they_ should face the consequences, not people who host things. this hand-holding and accepting bullshit has been slowly fucking up everything in IT. from linux on the desktop which brought so many bad things to linux it's a disaster, to the weird thing browsers are now, to "mail is now centralized because google is so comfy". it's beyond me why i should cater to those who don't fucking care.

i don't see that any governmental action would help because of things like this:

> More than a year after being asked by the European Union to standardize their Office 2003 XML formats, Microsoft submitted 2,000 pages of documentation for a new file format to the Ecma International consortium for it to be made into an open standard.

that's exactly what would happen to mail - or has happened already, only that google and ms don't have really good complicated standards to show and can't say "we did what you wanted us to" as nobody has asked. all the spam protection standards that got pushed and are "required" now are bullshit: DKIM, DMARC, SPF (which is the sanest one of the bunch). that's what happens if committees get involved, only that the plain google and ms solutions would be much more worse. they would lament about their business and how unfair it would be to drop these practices that politicians would ask them to specify how others should behave.

also those rules you proposed would equally be applied to everyone else. you know what happens next? ms and google start to send spam from single random addresses with plausible deniability because "it was a spammer!!1" and "we deleted the account!11". have fun complying to that self made sword of damocles of fearing a lawsuit or whatever the bureaucrats think of.

i want the government and regulation as far away from the net as possible. everyone hosting things is living in a legal twilight already.

@FourOh-LLC @FRA

@Elfie circus circus from fear and loathing in vegas, only it's everywhere anytime

@dave those are handy when natural gas is shut off. mine crypto and heat your room. win-win!

the EU retards didn't get the difference between oxo-degradeablere which disintegrates to microplastic and oxo-biodegradeable where the chemical polymers are degradeable after disintegrating (for more surface area) so they really are gone after a some time. both are banned.

those are the people who scream "trust the science" into my face. this clown world is too much for me.

@Soy_Magnus soggy doggy does sound like a weird furry fetish ;)
@gotofritz@mastodon.social @FourOh-LLC @FRA @blacklight

@gotofritz@mastodon.social well, if you _really_ need to, get a google or ms address for those cases. no need to completely abandon self hosted mail?

btw, you are essentially using the gmail of the fediverse which employs similar strategies.

@FourOh-LLC @FRA @blacklight

@FourOh-LLC @FRA @blacklight
this defeatism is exactly what the big players want.

i self host mail for > 10 years and have few problems. then, i don't write many mails to people on google or microsoft addresses. i don't even have setup complicated shenanigans like DNSSEC.

if nobody uses gmail etc. there is no problem with mail. that's the beauty with federation. if people have to expect that they have to deal with other providers than the big few, things will work. i think we need to route around them, not give in.

also, don't scream for more government regulation, enable others to break free of the shackles of those corporations. host mail servers for others, etc.

maybe i'm just lucky that in germany many people use the email provided by their ISP or even pay for a mail service. i haven't seriously dealt with a gmail address for a long time.