I have defederated from fv.technogothic.net as they wish to be "opt-out". I recommend any others do the same.
Be respectful and honor their wishes.
@BeAware Alright, I've seen you mention opt-in/opt-out over the past few days now...
What are you referring to in regards to opting in or opting out? What are you opting-out from? Do you have a link to an article talking about whatever this is in regards to?
@cdp1337 sure do have an article! It's about a developer building a BlueSky bridge and he used the term opt-out by default. Which was a bad move because that's just how Fedi works. So he got TONS of backlash about "opt-in only" which is just not how ActivityPub is built to it's core. Here's an article.
https://wedistribute.org/2024/02/tear-down-walls-not-bridges/
I hope you read it and understand why this is bad for the overall system if everything was "opt-in only"🤷♂️😬
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@BeAware @cdp1337
It's not "everything opt-in only" we are talking only about BlueSky-like commercial enterprises making non-native proprietary bridges, trying to move into almost Fediverse-only principle-orientated spaces (such as being much less-corporate)...
...like a different fish altogether
or shark 🦈 joining into Fediverse waters... different type of protocol and servers and even people... all add up to something different.
So there is good reason to ask people to opt-in because "Hi we're kinda-Capitalism and we're here coming here to pretend to be like you but not quite AND like a colonial empire making a bridge... we offer our people and services 'kinda like' you do in smaller caring ways, but we do it on massive corporate scale for an engineering kick mostly and "who knows what will happen later?".
"Why do you care about our reasons?" is a question to ask yourself and them.
Since it's not guaranteed or able to be said in future about these type being bought out too 🤑 it is a real danger we're still seeing happen to communities... in exchange for 💰 down the line 🍂.
So even if you or corporate skeleton care in the same way today. it doesn't mean a rug pull later won't happen when someone totally different buys this out and put it into their own portfolio or puts it to sleep...
[no offence but it is different for more reasons than you say even if I'm talking to wrong person for some of these things].
Aside from the principles and priorities by BlueSky being in such corporate containers I think I'd like to entertain many points here and just get that cleared up....
I did read that link and basically find the google / facebook / twitters style thing engineered for Fediverse thing is not what we want (and why almost all came here in first place) so people working in BlueSky who previously were developing and working or google etc - all difficult to see as something not to later regret and usual recipe for disaster / selling out...
I'm not doubting the technological but it's little comfort to try something you could have had using ActivityPub but 'you' (those companies) ALREADY CHOSE DIFFERENT and now there is a reason(s) they want to "tap-in" ⛏️ / get into this side of things...
They could have just made Mastodon instances and been happy with more humble ways... but I'm sure there's going to be other plans here - for them it has to be constant profit for almost no reason. Never good.
I guess Jack Dorsey not being part of it any more and deleting his account is also one kind of sign too and ethical check...(he's still of a kind of general sitting board of council, but he's not working on this just in case people think he still is).
Again written for speed to really think about differences here...
Merging a proprietary protocol is a BIG DIFFERENCE... and then other reasons deepen the differences. A different fish.
#BridgyFed #Bluesky #Bridge #blueskybridge #Threads / #Meta / #Facebook
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
Aye; I agree with this. If I enable payments/donations to cover operating and server costs for my instance and infrastructure, would I become an evil corporate overlord? I could even start data mining the local database for content or LLM definitions, (ok, yeah, that would be pretty slimy)
I will comment that your (freeschool) concern reminds me of back when GChat and FB worked with the XMPP protocol. I was able to chat with people on both platforms and was pretty active on both. Then each company slowly changed their implementations so that the bridge no longer worked. Can you guess which services I DON'T use anymore? ;)
Short-term might seem lots of benefits but then later down the line sadness...
@cdp1337
That kind of stuff you mention is good to remind people of so much of the stuff that has happened...
I know you chose the right way :)
Short-term might seem lots of benefits but then later down the line sadness...
Side-note:
I thought I'd list some things:
- ownership feuds etc,
- new people
- new 'bright' ideas / upgrades
- merging it further (with a million companies)
- fundamentally a structure around us that forces us to sell out
- etc
(just as a check for others in future...)
So solving these from start helps everyone even if nobody is paid much as not-for-profit or small thing...
Otherwise it's like getting high fast and then getting real low after, not really worth it long-term and not investing in #foss stuff meanwhile but I digress.
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@BeAware @cdp1337 While true and I can accept most of that and even the oversight of knowing it all - still as far as I know (and now healthy for me to look at and even ask) this is still a different fish to almost all the servers operating more personally, even individually.
So even in the worst cases, and what I've seen so far or wanted to interact with - it is much less potentially harmful as a ecosystem (even let's take it into the extreme and say the Nazi's or shit poasters have instances)... I'd still say they have some reasoning and harmlessness doing it the DIY way compared to let's just say 'Google'-esque massive BlueSky stuff.
I think I know (again like to learn) that if all the instances ar mostly Mastodon-esque then they subscribe to that almost exactly...
You/BlueSky not.
So yes there are many but mostly Mastodon to Mastodon or (Mastodon-esque to Mastodonesque) which is more likely the same... or more harmless... or more harmless or more small or differently focussed for themselves... (not looking to take over others)
But yes I'll look at some things you said again...
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@freeschool @cdp1337 well you'll have a fun time looking at the oliphant tier 0 blocklist. That's over 400 instances with known Nazis, transphobes, CSAM and more.
This blocklist isn't automatic and in fact, admins have to Google it and download it manually if they want to block these servers on a new instance without having to input them one at a time.
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
I know............. don't fucking remind me.
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@cdp1337 @freeschool sorry that they left you tagged in, friend.😬😅
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@BeAware @freeschool I meant more that I had to manually search for a blocklist and then MANUALLY enter each and every one! (At the time there was no import option implemented.)
NOW, server admins can just import a CSV of their chosen blocklist.... _lazy slackers_
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@cdp1337 @freeschool ah, yep. Also, if you go any higher than Tier 0, it's filled with lies and personal attacks by the admin of mastodon.art.
So, there's probably a few in the Tier 0 that don't belong there as well....qoto is silenced, for example.
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
> by the admin of mastodon.art
What..... no, nevermind, I don't want to know. I've read enough weird bullshit for one day.
I will say though, I'm surprised VN isn't anywhere on that list. I know we've been blocked by a number of small operators for silly reasons, (and not even the silly reasons I expected like "we allow boobs" or "we sometimes tend to swear like sailors")
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@cdp1337 @freeschool I am on tier 3 of the same list for "ableism"....one look at my profile should tell you that's a lie.
I'm ADHD and hydracephalus from birth, ableism isn't in my dictionary.🤦♂️
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
> grep -nr beaware .
> ./blocklists/_unified_tier3_blocklist.csv:80:beaware.live,silence,False,False,,False
> ./blocklists/mastodon/_unified_tier3_blocklist.csv:80:beaware.live,silence,false,false,,false
> ./blocklists/mastodon/mastodon.art.csv:92:beaware.live,suspend,false,false,,false
> ./blocklists/mastodon/union.place.csv:30:beaware.live,silence,false,false,,false
> ./blocklists/mastodon/_unified_tier2_blocklist.csv:80:beaware.live,silence,false,false,,false
> ./blocklists/mastodon.art.csv:92:beaware.live,suspend,False,False,,False
WHY DO THEY HAVE NO COMMENTS?!? There is clearly a "public_comment" column there!
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@cdp1337 @freeschool lol. If you go to the instances themself, the reasons are there. "AI art, ableism and sealioning".
AI art is true. Fair. But ableism and sealioning go together. If I'm lied about, you best bet on the fact I'm gonna ask for receipts.
They couldn't produce them.🤷♂️
Corporate BlueSky vs. Fediverse Non-Profit...
@freeschool @cdp1337 my point is this:
ActivityPub is "opt-out" by design. To the core of the protocol. You opt-out by blocking an instance. Your instance admin (Jeff) has had to opt-out of your toots being seen by MANY instances with bigots and CSAM content. If you were on a new instance, you'd have to block them all yourself.
So why can't people just block the bridge and call it a day?
It's the "opt-out only" stance that I'm stuck on and will be stuck on till it's done being said. The platform you're using is "opt-out" so just opt-out and move on. No need to bully a random dev for using a protocol how it's designed.
It's massive "I don't understand how the platform I'm using works, therefore anything that doesn't sound cool, i'm going to attack" even though the thing they are attacking, is what they're currently using.
I'm willing to bet there will be MANY bridges and not all of them will ask for your consent. There's 25,000+ ActivityPub instances that all do different things for different reasons. You have no idea every instance's intentions, nor do you know what most of them are....corporations could have already started instances and be taking your data and you wouldn't even know....