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What I described were the events on the video.. "framing" from either side doesnt change the fact that what I just said was a literal explanation of what is clearly heard and seen on the video and nothing else.
Framing wont change those facts so why should they change my opinion?
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @coolboymew
@freemo @realcaseyrollins @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @coolboymew I’m not entirely sure that your description is accurate, but you certainly seem to, so your opinion makes sense.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live
What part of my description isnt accurate? I mean I can point to whatever part in the video that shows every point I described and easily show you were each event happened. I cant imagine anyone can interpret any of it different since it was all captured rather clearly.
@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
I never claimed why he died, it isnt relevant, I said he was strangled, not that he died due to be strangled... Even if he died because of the medications, that fact that cauvin continued to strangle him 3 minutes after his fellow officer told him that Floyd's heart stopped stil tells me he intended the man dead. Even if he didnt kill him he sure as hell made sure he stayed dead and refused to let others help resuscitate him. So he is still guilty even if what you say is true, not is what you say in contrast to anything i said.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live
I never said hold him down was wrong.. I said once he was informed by someone trained in taking a pulse and giving CPR that the man's heart stopped then there was no justification of any kind fo rhim sitting on the man and refusing a fllow cop from delivering CPR.
What do you feel justifies sitting on a mans chest that doesnt have a heart beat and blocking others from giving CPR?
@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live
If that were true then why didnt he take the 5 seconds it takes to put leg and hand cuffs on him then get off? That would alleviate all his feas of a dead guy coming ack to life and running away, and being unconscious would have been trivial to do.
So considering he coud have easily addressed all those concerns your argument basically boils dow to "He was scared he might come back to life"... in other words, wanted him dead and to stay dead.
@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
@freemo @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins Read what I wrote.
Hint: people in fear don’t take chances.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live
Yes, and not sure how you can be scared of someone whose heart isnt beating. That excuse only holds any water up until his heart stopped, after that it ceases to be a valid excuse.
@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Seen quit a few. I have not objected to anything they did while he was alive and resisting arrest (even though he never took a swing or attacked the officers I still gave them the benefit of the doubt). But again once your told a man's heart has stopped there is no excuse for his actions.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Yes he would have been not guilty if he had acted that way.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Because when we talk about things like murder, especially 2nd degree murder, intent matters.
The case was not about if he caused the death, it is about if he intended to cause death or if death was due to negligence on his part. If he caused the death and that deathw as neither due to negligence or intent then he wasnt guilty of the charges at hand.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
When did I say he had no hand in his death, you just pulled that out of thin air.. You asked me if he got off him when his heart stopped if he should still be guilty, I said no.. I said nothing about if he had a hand in his death or not.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
"It certainly wasnt the way he was holding him down"... both autopsy reports and several doctors all disagree with you there.
Quote from one autopsy examiner:
"died as a result of mechanical asphyxiation"
Quote from the other autopsy examiner:
"cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
No you just arent paying attention. As I already covered simply killing someone is not enough to be charged with 2nd degree murder, for that you must show intent among other things.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
No because the knee on the kneck could be excused away as neccesary when the man was alive in order to protect his own life (this is questionable but at least plausable).. So can be seen as self-defense. Once it (perhaps accidentally) caused the man to die the self-defense excuse evaporates, there is no need to maintain the position for self defense at that point and only serves the purpose of making sure the man dies and is not revived, so at that point it demonstrates the death wasnt accidental but purposeful.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
> Why would he need to maintain the position if he was informed that the man was dead though?
He wouldnt, thats the point, unless his intent was for the man to die there is no reason to not only sit on the mans chest after being informed his heart stopped but to refuse to let his fellow officer help him when his fellow officer asked him to get off so he could tend to him.
> Furthermore you are assuming that there is a chance he could be revived. Once the body was loaded (since no CPR was attempted on scene by responders) we can assume that something was attempted. Since this did not revive Floyd I dont see how this would have made a difference how long the cop was on top of him.
It makes a **huge** difference, performing CPR shortly after the heart stopped (as the fellow officer was trying to do) may very well have saved his life. When a heart stops seconds/minutes count.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Two points:
So why did he want to kill him? Was his reasoning for desiring to kill Floyd ever established, or are we just assuming that he is evil for evil's sake?
If seconds count, why was CPR not preformed at the scene?
> So why did he want to kill him?
The most reasonable answer is because cops commonly go on a power trip and when this power is challenged (such as the cases of resisting arrest) they tend to get vengeful, a pattern I've personally witnessed several times. But this is just speculation, while it is very clear he intended the man to die we can only guess as to the multitude of murders.
> why was CPR not preformed at the scene?
We already covered this, because chauvin refused to let people perform CPR. As I already stated a fellow police officer on the scene when he detected no pulse immediately asked chauvin to get off so he could tend to Floyd, and this would have likely entailed CPR. Chauvin however refused his fellow officers request to try to care for Floyd and instead continued to sit on top of him preventing others from caring for him.
This is the very reason he is guilty as sin, he blocked his fellow officers active attempts to care for Floyd.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Everyone, welcome to justice in 2021. I hope you don't make anyone dislike you.
Nope, you a little retarded or something.. I said the exact opposite... He clearly demonstrated he wanted the man dead and thus is a bad guy. What makes him bad is speculation and less relevant.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
@freemo @sickburnbro @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins
Because when we talk about things like murder, especially 2nd degree murder, intent matters.
This is the key for me. Intent that #DerekChauvin meant to kill #GeorgeFloyd has never been proven, only assumed.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live
and I'd say that physically preventing fellow officers from trying to save his life after he is informed his heart stopped clearly shows the intent for Floyd to be dead. The only explanation you gave was fear, but as i said there is no reason that one would be scared of a man whos heart is known not to be beating.
@ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew @realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
@freemo @realcaseyrollins @ChristiJunior @buttered_poasties @sickburnbro @Weedle @coolboymew Say what you like man, your word is not evidence.
The only explanation you gave was fear, but as i said there is no reason that one would be scared of a man whos heart is known not to be beating.
You not understanding why someone would be afraid doesn’t mean the fear doesn’t exist.
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
By that logic I can go around shooting random black people and not be charged with murder simply because i have an irrational fear of black men.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Not in the least, at no point during the encounter was chauvin assaulted or did Floyd at any point attempt to kill chauvin.. he struggled against and resisted arrest but didnt even take a swing at officers. So no, nothing rational about it.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
Besides, I'm not saying he was in fear for his life, but rather that he was probably afraid that he would get away.
"bUt He KnEeLeD oN HiS nEcK" yeah yeah, that's how he was holding him down buddy. The whole point was to keep him from getting away, it's kinda the job for the police to keep criminals from running loose in the general public.
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
I dont know how many times i have to repeat this but when a man's heart stops beating and you forcably prevent people from reviving him then yes, his actions show very clear intent he wants him dead. Him being scared Chauvin might get away, or fear of anything else, doesnt change the fact that he wanted him dead, at best it just explains why he wanted him dead.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
You act like im just saying this shit.. i am literally describing the actions caught on tape and yes that is evidence.
I am claiming that the evidence caught on tape shows very clear intent.. a Person does not need to state their intent for one to infer intent from their actions. Thats not how the law works, nor should it. If my actions demonstrate my intent then that is enough, and that is the case here.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
@freemo @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins @coolboymew
i am literally describing the actions caught on tape
You are describing them in a way that assumes intent and it blatantly deceptive
I am claiming that the evidence caught on tape shows very clear intent
See?
@realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
Yes i am describing them in a way that assumes intent.. this is what a jury does, they view someones actions and try to determine if there is a strong likelihood of implied intent, and is exactly what I am doing.
@buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @coolboymew
@freemo @buttered_poasties @Weedle @ChristiJunior @sickburnbro @realcaseyrollins @coolboymew
Yes i am describing them in a way that assumes intent.. this is what a jury does, they view someones actions and try to determine if there is a strong likelihood of implied intent, and is exactly what I am doing.
There is a difference between those two things. If you’re basing your conclusion on an assumption, you have a hecking weak case my guy, and probably know it too. Good verdicts are arrived by deriving intent, not imputing or assuming it.
