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@EubieDrew hmm ive never heard of this... So when you click the checkmark it wont go away?

@LouisIngenthron nopt always.. some apps will be very aggressive in polling the server and when you are using multiple clients this can reach the rate limit.

I had this problem and had to stop using my phone app in order to fix it.

@roko

Let your instance admin know your opinion and see if he might consider joining then.

@tio @admitsWrongIfProven

@roko

Thats more or less accurate. Outside of the UFoI instances can choose how they federate. Inside the UFoI they should federate.

If an instance in the UFoI shows itself to be a bad actor and worthy of defederation then there is a transparent process centered around due process that is used to eject a bad actor instance from the UFoI at which point its members can decide to defederate if they wish to.

@tio @admitsWrongIfProven

@roko

Yea, without UFoI the only way you can garuntee you and your friends all communicate is if you all join free speech servers (servers that dont defederate from anyone).

The nice thing about UFoI is it solves the problem while still allowing instance admins to defederate from bad actors.

@tio @admitsWrongIfProven

@freemo @tio @admitsWrongIfProven

Say if I joined an instance and my friend joined another, if one of our instances block the other then we can't communicate anymore, this is a big problem with defederation. I can of course ask my friends to join the same instance I'm on, but this will lead to centralization which is bad for fedi. This is where #UFoI comes in, its a group of instances that I know for sure will be federated with each other, so I can just ask my friends to join one of the instances listed there.

And the transparency bit is something I really appreciate, I know there are some bad actors on fedi that engage in slandering and false accusations without any evidence backing their claims, so I hope #UFoI can solve these issues.

Free speech 

@Ryle Well thats not so bad then...

I mean i do think consideration of freespeech is important... but no ideology should be absolute either. There are reasonable limits.

Free speech 

@Ryle So people are attacking you for NOT being freespeech now?

@tonic @philipncohen

As tonic stated this has happened many times before to great effect, and without needing to setup an instance at all. See this write up I did that explains this very thing happening:

jeffreyfreeman.me/eugen-rochko

There is an effort I helped start to address this issue, you can check it out here:

UFoI.org

@LouisIngenthron Do you have an app for QOTO on your phone as well? Perhaps fedilab?

@colinsmatt11

Yes I am the one who started the UFoI, but we are now a group of over 20 instances in the pending stage of launch... Once we are launched it will be fully democratic.

You should join, it seems like what you are going for.

@thor

@admitsWrongIfProven @tio @roko

As you point out the issue isnt about defederation at all, its about the gossip, manipulation, and lies that results in uninformed defederation.

You pointed out one example already, where a group of people with the clear intent to spread rumors without any evidence were able to get QOTO removed from the official list, but it goes much deeper than that. That same misinformation has gotten quite a few servers defamed for things that never happened.

The reason, among other things, is that when an instance hears a rumor they defederate and stic those rumors in the "Reasons" column with no transparency or evidence, others pick up on this, rinse repeat. They have used some pretty nasty tactics to make this more prolific too. For example they have hordes of single user instances that defederate then maintain lists that list instances based on how many instances defederate them. So they are able to say "look this instance is in the top 10 most defederated" but leave out the fact that they are counting single user instances and in fact they arent really very defederated at all.

What is needed less than the collaboration between instances the UFoI provides is the **transparency** on why defederation takes place with evidence and a chance for the other side to speak their piece. This way defederation can be informed.

@tio
Actually I know there are some people who's thinking about the long term consequences of defederation and is trying to find a solution to this problem. I haven't looked much into it but they're working on this project ufoi.org/ which aims to form a community of instances that agree to federate with each other, its not perfect but its much better than the current way of doing things which is not very transparent. FYI, this is not like a closed off group, they promote openness and decentralization, you'll get the gist once you take a look at what they're proposing. I first heard about this project from @admitsWrongIfProven and @freemo, they seem to be very open minded and transparent about everything which I really appreciate.

@politicsusa46

I doubt that would help, you can hide a lot in your tax returns if you dont itemize.

@mokana@bigisland.social

Yea thats how it works, your federated timeline is the combination of all public posts of all things followed from your server.

@EubieDrew @feditips @Mastodon @mastodonmigration

@mokana@bigisland.social

Yea it matters sinceit effects who can see you in their federated feeds

@EubieDrew @feditips @Mastodon @mastodonmigration

@mandlebro

Consciousness IMO is just an emergent phenomenon.. a trick the brain plays on itself. The evolutionary purpose is simply to make us want to avoid death at all cost.

@antares @fourmajor

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