Honestly, I'm not sure anymore which one is good and which one is evil between Google and Microsoft.
I'm not that naive to think a corporation will act in a way other than to gain profit. But there are a lot of ways to gain profit and to build trust with the customer.
And I'm really not sure I can trust Google anymore and starting to build a real trust for Microsoft.
And the latter is a much more surprising fact than the former I must say.
@lig Corporations are not your friend, how hard is this to understand
@Matter I'm not making friends here. I'm hoping that some of those understand that building a user's trust is crucial for their success.
And it interesting to feel how my trust changes.
@DrunkShawarma Agree. Also, there are cases for me when I ban a company for myself for good. That's it, never ever I'm going to be a customer of that company again. Fool me once and I'll never trust you after that. It happens with banks more often rather than online services as I keep a higher standard for companies I trust my money with.
@lig
Fair. I do a list of tech companies that have earned enough negative brownie points that I will be actively trying to avoid and they are... *drum roll* Amazon, Google and anything that is run by Elon Musk currently.
I guess using debian non-free is the lesser of the two evils when one needs to have working wifi hardware on a portable device
@DrunkShawarma @lig @Matter We need to make all this more accessible to people, and easier to just help without having to be a super geek.
@DrunkShawarma @lig @Matter yeah
Debian is about being a free (as in freedom) os and not having all the closed source stuff, (which then breaks essential stuff like some networking)
not sure if isenkram-cli works apparently that will detect and install firmware.
@DrunkShawarma @lig @Matter Indeed, on the dev list I have asked if the non free iso and the testing release can be easier to find too, help the rest of us to test / spread debian for example.
Once they have a working system we can then work on why free is better than non free and we hopefully have another person to campaign with us.
@DrunkShawarma @lig @Matter Indeed, but there are currently 100's of packages that need a maintainer, we need to make it easier for people to get involved.
https://www.debian.org/devel/join/
looks rather scary to me, when I just want to be able to discuss / report issues to see if others are having the same problem.
Why does it look scary to you, if you don't mind me asking? Mind you I haven't contributed but I am looking forward to attempting after my current contract ends and so am curious. As I see it, I will look into it and try to help. If I get in the way, I will move away and go into other things. Nothing to loose, everything to gain kind of situation from my perspective.
If I put a non dev / geek hat on then it looks rather a long process.
Sure, it will be long at the start... I hope it gets easier after some time and experience. 😅
I guess if you want it to 'just work' you use something else, like mint, which defeats the point really we can';t promote something that needs a degree in Computer science to get working, but we can't also promote something we can't directly support.
Sorry, I am seeing two threads where we are talking and I am loosing the flow of the conversation and am likely not making sense. I am new to Mastodon and am still figuring it out so sorry if I appear incoherent.
Regarding your point, I see the difficulty. It is a hard problem to solve. However I think the issue with most Linux distros is also that they don't still work out of the box. I wanted to start migrating to Manjaro recently and so I installed and some of my programs. Next day when I updated the programs, I lost access to terminal. Such things, which sound small to layperson, really push them away. Again I do agree your point but I think the current solution isn't working as well as we would like.
I agree, I tried to test Debian 11, can't get it to see the repository, during install, (mirror) so tried to install debian 10 (fine) upgrade to debian 11 and get networking issues.
All I wanted to do was to test the new Arduino beta software for the developers. I can't even get the OS to work properly.
Things need to 'just work' we need more people like me, who are not super geeky on this, to see the issues and help get these problems across to the devs so they can be addressed.
I think it would be good for non-super geeks to not just report the issue but also provide simple workarounds since I am sure the devs have other priorities or pressing matters and may not have the time to figure it out. I have been meaning to get into a deep dive into Linux development after my current work contract ends and I have more free time on my hands.
yeah good point, so i took a screenshot of the issue with installing debian 11 from the ISO media, then it saved to /var/log I had no way of getting at that file to copy it somewhere like a usb stick so I could send to developers
It may be better to be ableto save the screenshots to the removable install media (or provide a choice) esp given the idea is to test teh installer, so being able to dump info somewhere would be good. Could be a menu installer for persistence..
That sounds like a good solution.
As a way round that I carried out without using a mirror only to find myself stuck when it asked for some other media with the option to take a screenshot or continue (which I was unable to) so no 'go back' button i was just stuck.
I find people don't care too, a lot of people have perhaps pretty much accepted defeat on this. We need to remember that WE are their customers and income source, either directly or via adverts (pay per click) or other means (data)
My recent scary experience with this was when I attempted to get friends and family over to Signal after Whatsapp's new privacy policy news run. I only got 10 people to get Signal! The most worrying resistance I got was "I don't want another app on my phone!". Privacy isn't even worth a block of pixels!
Sorry about the rant
@DrunkShawarma @lig @Matter Maybe there is something that can be learned from this, we need to get more people taking about privacy.
Yes, I think more people need to understand the more currently abstract (but real in the shadows) consequences of what is happening. Surprisingly even evoking the case of Cambridge Analytica didn't have an effect, though some responded when the case is made personal to them and issues that directly impact them (rather than the more abstract election hijacking) are highlighted.
@DrunkShawarma @lig @Matter yeah, you need to relate stories to people.
When their e-reader stops reading their books due to a license issue, that isn't their fault you can explain why DRM is bad, and they don't actually own the book despite paying for it,
@DrunkShawarma @zleap @Matter Clearly, you didn't explain it well. The number of apps would stay the same. There is now point in installing Signal (which is bad as hell btw) unless you are removing WhatsApp.
@DrunkShawarma @zleap @Matter
Regarding Signal being not free at all, read this thread of mine https://fosstodon.org/@lig/105552672458806219
@DrunkShawarma @zleap @Matter For me, this https://fosstodon.org/@lig/105552856425961503 puts Signal in a lifelong blacklist.
These are good points but I don't feel they are strong enough to blacklist Signal or any app for that matter. In the end of the day all the tools, and in fact society, is built upon trust. If there is no trust then these is a fundamental limit to progress due to the limited mental and physical capacity of us as a species. For example, how do you know that the manufacturer of your phone or computer hasn't installed a backdoor in the firmware to allow them access to your data? Regarding Signal getting shut down, I feel like that is a weird reason to blacklist something. In effect any number of things can shut down but that doesn't mean I wouldn't use it while it is there.
@DrunkShawarma
The thing is they have aggressively pushed an alternative client of of existence and then reused its code.
This looks too shady for me to trust them for a second.
@zleap @Matter
I am not sure that is true and if it is then it seems like the userbase of Signal didn't mind it [1]. LibreSignal was created to be a Google-free messenger and so they made it. Then they realised that they also wanted to connect to the Signal's "normal" users through federation. Since Moxie's experience with the federation of CyanogenMod wasn't good, Signal wasn't didn't want to go down the same route. However this issue was later solved by making Signal Google-free. So I don't see the issue here. Everyone is happy as far as I can see.
It seems to have achieved the aim of making signal google free which was the intention, just maybe not quite in the way that was intended. This appears to be a win win, maybe LibreSignal can exist but if it's brief existence brings about something good, then history can and should at least record that.
@DrunkShawarma
I know for sure that there are backdoors. That's why I use firmware built from source for mobile devices and routers I have as much as I can.
Have you looked at the source code for the chips? The details don't matter however, I hope you see the point I am trying to make.
I admit, I didn't do a great job explaining this, cause if I did they would be onboard.
Regarding the number of apps being the same, most people wouldn't completely abandon Whatsapp and switch to Signal just like that. Take me for example, since most of my family and fair few friends haven't switched to Signal I am still on Whatsapp. I wouldn't cut connections to them just because they wouldn't switch the messaging service of my choice.
@DrunkShawarma
You always would have connections with people you care about regardless of WhatsApp existence. Just don't use it. Seriously, just try it, it's really easy. No matter whether they use Signal is whatever, you definitely should delete WhatsApp from your devices.
I would like to but the issue is the groups. I can keep individual contact, sure, but I cannot participate in group discussions anymore. To make it more impractical, I live in a different country from most of my family and close friends (I moved 1.5 years ago) and so there isn't any chance of meeting up regularly. The only thing that keeps the feeling of closeness is the ability to just being able to pick up the phone and calling the person at any time and giving up Whatsapp takes that away.
@DrunkShawarma
> giving up Whatsapp takes that away
No, really, it doesn't. I have no troubles calling people all over the world using their actual phones. And it doesn't require you to use expensive phone calls. There are a lot of ways to do that.
There is always a way to achieve anything WhatsApp provides you without WhatsApp.
I think you are forgetting about the other side of things. While I can make changes on my end to get in touch with people, getting other people to change is harder, e.g. my recent attempt to get people to switch to Signal from Whatsapp. Going further, while I may be fine paying to call people I cannot reasonably expect everyone else to pay to call me. Free services on the internet (in return of data hoovering) has broken people's expectations and hence it is hard to get people to pay for things when it is available somewhere else for free.
@zleap @lig @Matter I just came across this and I think it is an interesting point. Do people still trust corporations? Most people I know don't "trust" corporations but have a more "I don't care" attitude or have zero trust. My personal mantra, if I cannot find an alternative way, is to look for the lesser of two (or more) evils.