what’s next [after the equality act]? racial identity? can someone identify as a minority [for benefits]? i mean we’ve already seen it happen — David Freiheit
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@icedquinn Personally I think we are going about it backwards.. we shouldnt be treating women, or minorities as special groups or give them special treatment (regardless of if they face unique challenges), therefore problem solved, be a minority if you want, who cares.
That isnt that there is no problem or that the problem isnt to be solved. But if we solve the problem for all poor, for example, then by extension we are already helping challenged groups (who are more likely to be poor) as a result.
@icedquinn Seems to me there would be better ways to solve that as well.. Simply have sports be neutral to genders, then do all sports by weight class, problem solved, men will dominate the higher weight class divisions, women will be on equal footing at lower weight classes.. a woman and a man of equal weight, both trained to have low body fat will have equivelant muscle mass and performance.
@icedquinn Other way around, I've never seen any data to suggest a man is superior to a woman of the same weight class and similar training.
do you have any data on mma fighting or something? Obviously they have a different figure but when all your weight is developed into muscle that just means youll have different superior abilities on each side at best not any side being at a greater advantage overall.
Thats not unusual for men or women in sports, in fact its the norm. We did it regularly in our high school wrestling team even. Its pretty much standard practice in any weight based sport (wrestling being one).
Anecdotes from the internet, but it's basically the same reason why women's basketball is a different league: even at the same weight, muscle mass is distributed differently, and the reaction time disparity (legitimate genetic difference) between a man and woman training at that level isn't fair at all
quora.com/In-MMA-fighting-could-women-and-men-compete-equally-assuming-weight-class-limitations-apply
Being distributed different just means women will be better at some parts, men better at others, for the same muscle mass.. A woman might jump higher and a man might run faster, therefore women and men would be suited for different positions on a team. But ultimately if their muscle mass is equivalent they should have comparable performance if your considering across the spectrum.
If your muscles and bodily functions are, I don't know, designed to produce milk and gestate children, you're going to probably lose to the person who's body doesn't have to worry about those things
@rat_attakk @freemo it might be possible to run a Swiss tournament like they do in Evo pools for fighting games, and then reverse engineer the segmentation criterion from where the women tend to place.
Any ideal solution in my mind wouldnt give women any sort of special adjustments. weight class is probably one of the best normalizations I could think of but I dont have any real data to say how well it would work, or any data to suggest it wouldnt work.
I should point out there are sports which are complete sex neutral where women hold world records over men or even the majority of world records over men. Though they dont tend to be the sorts of sports that rely on running or power.. free diving is the most notable one dominated by women
No what i am saying has a lot of important nuance you missed, most notably that we are talking about professional sports leagues that represent on the best of the best of each weight class.. we arent, obviously, talking about just taking two random people from the population, weighting them, and then telling them to compete.
So? I never once claimed women are **overall** going to be superior to men in much (only area i know of where they dominate over men is total distance traveled, particularly extreme long-distance hiking over the course of months)...
We are talking about after weight normalization, which none of the records you just mentioned take into account.
Not really, no one is stopping them from continuing to do womens league if they wanted to in addition to a mixed league.
average bodyfat for a man: ~15%
medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=8519#:~:text=Body%20fat%20content%20is%2025,to%20convert%20fat%20into%20food.
Even ignoring the difference in upper body strength, men have more muscle mass than women. This is not a problem of diet or training, but a simple fact of normal biological development. This is a major advantage for men.
What does the average body fat of the sexes have to do with the discussion? We are not talking about average members of society, so average numbers tell you nothing about the topic we are discussing.
you would have to compare the body fat percentage of the top performing athletes in the same sport and see if there is a significant different to really have any useful data.
I'd imagine you'd find sports where low body fat results in superior performance men and women at the top of their respective leagues would have more similar body fat
then you analyze where the men and women rank to find where the distribution of bio male and bio females tend to be.
Is that suppose to be a solution to calculating a distribution (in that sense I'd agree it works) or how to create multi-sex teams? in which case im not sure how it solves the problem as you would likely see men out ranking women without a normalization factor.
hmm, yea that would probably work out, and you'd probably in the middle somewhere get mixed sex teams as a result.
a woman isnt wasting energy on producing milk or a child if she is an athelete, she isnt pregnant at the time. The resources arent being diverted there.
That said they are probably likely to be smaller chested as tends to appear to be the case at least. but that likely has to do with being low-fat overall.
I went through physical evaluation for federal law enforcement. I’m a big guy. On the 300m sprint I was 3rd out of 50 people in the group. The women were all dead last. Guess who was best on the distance run? The welterweight men. Guess who was last? The women again.
it turned out that they were still at an unfair disadvantage because the muscle growth they gained pumped up on AGH+others doesn't go away. once the muscles were "stretched out" it was significantly easier for them to maintain bulk that natural bodybuilders couldn't obtain (or had to do obscene workout routines to build.)
essentially once they cheated, they forever cheated, because the cells were already developed to have big muscles.
@icedquinn Assuming that is true im not sure it is a counter argument here. Assuming the analogy carried over to men and women at all at worst it implies a woman might need to spend more time training than a man to be in the same league as him, which is fine by me.. but youd still get women on equal footing with men at the lower weight classes..
The end result would be that the top weight classes would likely be all or mostly men, and then the bottom weight classes or slightly above youd have women right up there with men, it would just be that due to natural differences you might reason that you have the best of the best of the women competing against average level men, they are on equal footing within their league all the same and that just nature, but it would work.
You wouldnt.. transexuals and transgendered people do not want their own bathrooms or an elimination of sports leagues all together.. They want to be included, not to have other excluded.
I wonder if you realize how pathetic you look when you talk like that.. probably not. You sound like a nut job who is so messed up and miserable all they have left in life is to try to troll random strangers they dont know and hope someone for once will at least acknowledge you...
get a life.
I remember a few people adding some good points and then a bunch of morons who cared more about some religious or obnoxious agenda and prejudice than facts.
I dont remember which one you were, so likely didnt say anything new or remarkable
Also that conversation and post was not about primary sex characteristics, it was about sex, as a whole.
Must be great living in a world that is that simple.. wish it were more than a fantasy, would make my job much easier.
this is a pretty good breakdown of the progressive libtard criteria for intersex. true intersex is actually far less common than progressives claim
https://colinwright.substack.com/p/intersex-is-not-as-common-as-red
"true intersex"... lol your literally pulling the no true scotsman fallacy right now. I love how you just get to dictate what "true intersex" is and all of science and professionals who life is devoted to this stuff be damned.
Move along your wasting my time.
primary sex determination in humans happens at conception. this applies in 99.9% of cases:
the egg has an X
if the sperm has a Y, baby is male
if the sperm has an X baby is female
No one said anything about "primary sex", on the previous post and this one I never once even used the word primary... so not sure what your on about.
i said "primay sex determination"
that's what determines whether you're male or female, which is the thing you libtards cant seem to get through your thick heads
Ok well considering you clearly have no clue what your talking about (and said several incorrect statements already).. and have the maturity of a toddler, I can see why I dont remember you and why you arent worth my attention, bye.
your the only one in the room saying anything worthy of listening to.. you have more credentials than most of the schmucks on this thread.
it's not "men's sports" and "women's sports," they are "sports leagues" and "women's leagues" for the reason of you have potentially 300m citizens in the USA and there are maybe <100 slots to put in the sports league.
the womens leagues are a concession so they can play sports at all.
this is why the whole 'no trans in womens sports' is a big deal.